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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
DYNOJET PVCX - best tune for 106”?

Their is quite a difference in tunes available for our Cross bikes with the modern flashers (Dynojets PVCX and the Maximus) plus several tuners we are used to, piggy back tuners like the PCV, Lloydz VFCIII, and more.

Would love to let @NOEMTZ and @Andytwodogs speak to the benefits of both new flash tuning platforms and any of our members who have bikes tuned by them. As much data by all the better.

Numerous have quite a large investment in existing in their set ups and tunes so to change or not we need as much data as possible.

When tuned properly what type of horsepower and torque gains can we expect? We have seen Lloydz and others posting upwards of 100hp and 115 pounds of torque (slip ons, Lloydz air filter, tuner and timing wheel).
Obviously their is much more than numbers to factor but a great guide.

Pros and Cons of all?
 

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Two things here.

Firstly, I would never suggest that anyone alter their existing set up. If you have a PCV, timing wheel and a good dyno tune you are best served leaving it alone. The cost of getting a flash tuner and getting your bike to the same state of tune would far outweigh any benefit.
If you have one of those lamented "other" tuners it may be a different story.
If you have no fuel controller, I reckon it is a no brainer.....flash tuner every time.
Add up the cost of a PCV, a timing wheel and installation costs for one or both. Then compare the cost of a flash tuner, no timing wheel, no installation costs.
With a PCV, you have the choice of a "canned" tune or a dyno tune.
With a flash tuner, you have the choice of a "canned" tune, a dyno tune or a remote tune.
Pretty much any dyno tuner can tune a PCV, but only a select few can tune direct to an ECU. This is the (current) downside to a flash tuner. It is a different process and requires a different skill set.
If you have a flash tuner, look for a dyno guy who knows and understands ECU tuning software like TuneECU, Tuneboy and Woolich Racing (among others) and they will cope.
Some people will state that one flash tuner is "better" than another. Not really so. Apart from some differences in features the flash tuner is really little more than a dumb interface that allows the tuning software to "talk" to your ECU. The major differences are with the tuning software. In Australia, the use of Dynojets C3 is near universal and that is why I originally went with the PVCX.

Secondly, I take all dyno figures with a pinch of salt. It is so easy to manipulate a dyno to read 'high'.....and you just know the kind of operator who would do such a thing to make himself look good.
My thoughts are that, if you put two bikes on the same dyno.....one PCV, one PVCX and applied the same (high) level of skill to each tune there would likely be little difference except that, in the case of the PVCX, I believe the "rideability index" would be higher.
My PVCX tuned Cross Country can pull from 30mph/1200rpm in 5th....rolling on to wide open throttle (quickly) cleanly and without snatching.
 

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I agree with above.

If you have already spent the coin on a pcv, timing wheel and a good tune. Key words “good tune”...and are completely happy with it, than don’t change a thing.


Ecu flashers are not new, just new to the Victory world. Regardless of brand of flash tuner you use.

As to the question of pros and cons.....There are some benefits to not having a piggyback system.

No additional devices to fail in the long run.
Less lag time.
Control of rev limiter per gear.
Control of timing throughout whole throttle and rpm range vs above 2500 with PCV or same setting across all with timing wheel.

In the end, a properly tuned bike will run much better in all riding conditions and not simply at WOT.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thx for replying gents.

Costs - looks like both tuners are about the same - $379 to $399 but I see tunes drastically different where fuel moto is offering a custom tune for as low as $129 and a bunch of canned tunes avail to start (on dynojets website). Does the Maximus have any canned to tunes to plug and play once purchased? Why do the Custom tunes seem so much more expensive? I am seeing quotes of $399 to tune?

Wide vs narrow band tuning - what does the Maximus compared to the PVCX offer/need/suggest?

Benefits of the wideband tune?

Basic needs.
*** Air filter - apologies for adding but hear from both companies the Lloydz air filter is a must for either tuner to get proposer gains. The stock, stage 1 hi flow filter or K&n is a must?

*** exhaust - minimum of a set of high flow slip ons?

What about these tank spacer kits to lift the tank and allow more air?
 

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Thx for replying gents.

Costs - looks like both tuners are about the same - $379 to $399 but I see tunes drastically different where fuel moto is offering a custom tune for as low as $129 and a bunch of canned tunes avail to start (on dynojets website). Does the Maximus have any canned to tunes to plug and play once purchased? Why do the Custom tunes seem so much more expensive? I am seeing quotes of $399 to tune?

Wide vs narrow band tuning - what does the Maximus compared to the PVCX offer/need/suggest?

Benefits of the wideband tune?

Basic needs.
*** Air filter - apologies for adding but hear from both companies the Lloydz air filter is a must for either tuner to get proposer gains. The stock, stage 1 hi flow filter or K&n is a must?

*** exhaust - minimum of a set of high flow slip ons?

What about these tank spacer kits to lift the tank and allow more air?

I can only answer one of those questions.
A custom tune by a tuner who knows their stuff takes time, time to meticulously tailor every section of the rev range in each gear.
Remembering that front and rear cylinders have different requirements.
Time is money, a truly skilled dyno tuner usually don't come cheap.

You get what you pay for (Hopefully...provided you choose a good reputable person)
As far as mods go, the better you get the engine to breathe in and out, the better the result.
 

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Thx for replying gents.

Costs - looks like both tuners are about the same - $379 to $399 but I see tunes drastically different where fuel moto is offering a custom tune for as low as $129 and a bunch of canned tunes avail to start (on dynojets website). Does the Maximus have any canned to tunes to plug and play once purchased? Why do the Custom tunes seem so much more expensive? I am seeing quotes of $399 to tune?

Wide vs narrow band tuning - what does the Maximus compared to the PVCX offer/need/suggest?

Benefits of the wideband tune?

Basic needs.
*** Air filter - apologies for adding but hear from both companies the Lloydz air filter is a must for either tuner to get proposer gains. The stock, stage 1 hi flow filter or K&n is a must?

*** exhaust - minimum of a set of high flow slip ons?

What about these tank spacer kits to lift the tank and allow more air?
FuelMotoUSA also have a developing tune library. Maximus will certainly have a tune library. The custom tunes you see at a higher price I would suggest involve the hire of a wideband kit....as I have mentioned before these kits are expensive and you can also expect to pay a hefty refundable deposit for their use.
There only seems to be one remote tuner for the Maximus....801 Motorworx, and I am led to understand he has a patent monopoly on the process. With the PVCX aside from FuelMoto, Robs Dyno Service have indicated to me they intend to operate a remote service. There may be others.

I cannot speak with any real authority on the processes involved with remote tuning with the Maximus as it is difficult to glean information from anywhere. What I can say is that, as far as I know, 801 only offers the wideband option. The Maximus requires the connection of a PC or laptop to both load tunes and record logs. The PVCX is more self contained whereas you load a tune onto the PVCX and then load it onto the bike. The obvious advantage to this is you can carry several alternative tunes in the PVCX and easily load them on the roadside without any other equipment. Recording logs are direct to the PVCX itself so you don't have to cart around a laptop.....problematic with a steel frame bike. The PVCX has a display so you can mount it on the handlebars and monitor 18-odd tuning parameters as you ride if desired.

The differences between narrow and wide band tuning is a subject I will try to explain with my limited knowledge. Firstly, I am told that the narrowband sensors are more responsive and therefore better for "fine" tuning. O2 sensors purpose is to measure air/fuel ratio (AFR).
Your motorcycle stays in closed loop....ie the narrowband sensors are capable of reading exhaust gases and hence altering the ECU tuning parameters.....at low to moderate throttle openings from idle to about 4000rpm. Thus about 90% of the time your bike is running in closed loop, unless you ride with a heavy throttle hand. So, a narrowband tune will get you tune very accurate for the vast majority of your operating range. And the tuning cells outside the scope of the narrow band sensors (wide open throttle etc, when the bike is running open loop) are set to values that have been proven to work on a similar bike. Thus you end up with a tune that is perfect in closed loop (where you ride most of the time) and very good, much better than stock in open loop.
Now, when you fit wideband sensors for the benefit of tuning, they perform a different task. They do not alter the tuning parameters in your ECU and in fact they don't even run through it. They are connected via an interface direct to the PVCX. So their purpose is entirely information gathering.....your AFR. And so with widebands information is collected about your AFR at ALL throttle openings and loads, resulting in an ultimately more accurate tune.
In essence, if you just want your bike to run much better than the crappy factory tunes and to go close to it's potential in power, efficiency and rideability a narrowband tune will do nicely.
If you are a performance nut, and just have to wring every last horsepower out of your bike a wideband tune is your choice. I would suggest this choice for most people running cams.

Get the best air filter you can. For Cross bikes this is the Lloydz filter. For steel frames there is much more choice and we could go on and on about it.

Exhaust is a very personal choice in regards appearance and sound, and different exhausts produce wildly differing results with tuning. Again, outside the scope of this thread and much covered elsewhere.

But certainly, any stock bike will benefit from a considered choice in intake and exhaust, especially considering that they are set up from the factory with heavy regard to EPA requirements.

The tank spacers appear to show a slight increase in air flow to the engine hence a bit more power. Whether you could actually feel it or not would be debatable. Only for those who have to wring out every last horsepower.
 

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So if I got a tune, which yielded one fuel table for both cylinders and all gears, did I get a good tune? Did I get my $ worth?
 
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So if I got a tune, which yielded one fuel table for both cylinders and all gears, did I get a good tune? Did I get my $ worth?
Depends on how much you spent!

There are different AFR requirements for each cylinder, and the Dynojet C3 software does these separately. My front and rear fuel trim table bear little resemblance to each other.

At the end of the day, are you happy with how your bike performs?
 

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Depends on how much you spent!

There are different AFR requirements for each cylinder, and the Dynojet C3 software does these separately. My front and rear fuel trim table bear little resemblance to each other.

At the end of the day, are you happy with how your bike performs?
It ran kinda hot. I saved the map and put the AT back on.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
PVCX good for multiple bikes?

Most tuners marry to their machines. Can the PVCXwork on multiple bikes?
 

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Most tuners marry to their machines. Can the PVCXwork on multiple bikes?
Yes, they are married to the bike.
Dynojet offer an option on the HD Power Vision to purchase additional licences. It is my understanding that this will soon be an option with the CX.
If this occurs, the cool thing will be that one unit could not only work with multiple 106s, but also with Octane/Scout, any Indian 111 and most Polaris ATVs.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I reached out to fuelmoto and just waiting to hear back. Would love to buy from someone who has tuned the Vic 106’s already in lieu of just the dynojet maps. That way we can build on what has already been learned? Thoughts?
 

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I reached out to fuelmoto and just waiting to hear back. Would love to buy from someone who has tuned the Vic 106’s already in lieu of just the dynojet maps. That way we can build on what has already been learned? Thoughts?
Spot on. I have logged many miles on my bike in an effort to help these guys get their tuning algorithms nailed. The more the merrier.
The guy (Craig) who is doing the PVCX tuning is also operating a dyno service out of an Indian dealership somewhere in the south west. I'll find out where, he may be quite close to you.
For guys up in the north east you already have an expert in Rob Swartz at Robs Dyno Service in Gardner, MA. Rob was a huge part of getting the PVCX happening and has been flash tuning Victorys for at least a couple of years now.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Spot on. I have logged many miles on my bike in an effort to help these guys get their tuning algorithms nailed. The more the merrier.
The guy (Craig) who is doing the PVCX tuning is also operating a dyno service out of an Indian dealership somewhere in the south west. I'll find out where, he may be quite close to you.
For guys up in the north east you already have an expert in Rob Swartz at Robs Dyno Service in Gardner, MA. Rob was a huge part of getting the PVCX happening and has been flash tuning Victorys for at least a couple of years now.
Thx a ton @Andytwodogs. Would love to know about Craig.
Do you know if all this experience and knowledge is being amended in maps Dynojets website or by the tuners? Per fuelmoto earlier (I didn’t get Brian which is supposed to be the inside specialist there) but they told me to just order the tuner from their website and use the dynojet tune until I’m ready to use their service. Trying to buy from the most experienced first to help get the most accurate tune possible with knowledge (like your knowledge) behind it. Similar to when buying from Lloydz and getting his modified tune as a base tune. Not sure if that’s beneficial?
 

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Thx a ton @Andytwodogs. Would love to know about Craig.
Do you know if all this experience and knowledge is being amended in maps Dynojets website or by the tuners? Per fuelmoto earlier (I didn’t get Brian which is supposed to be the inside specialist there) but they told me to just order the tuner from their website and use the dynojet tune until I’m ready to use their service. Trying to buy from the most experienced first to help get the most accurate tune possible with knowledge (like your knowledge) behind it. Similar to when buying from Lloydz and getting his modified tune as a base tune. Not sure if that’s beneficial?
Yes, it certainly is beneficial. I would certainly be purchasing a PVCX only from FuelMotoUSA or Robs Dyno Service for the reasons you stated. Apart from their own tunes, you have access to Dynojets library anyway.

With the FuelMoto tuning service I think you have 45 days to utilise the service after you order it, so just wait until you are ready.

The modified tunes are not endlessly swappable between bikes, there are compatibility issues. You have a base tune that is loaded from the factory or dealership. This is called an .STK file. Mine is VPFPMA.STK. There are a seemingly endless amount of these tunes and they vary even between same models of the same year. This .STK file always remains on your ECU and, when you have a PVCX that file must remain at all times on the PVCX. The modified tune files are designated .DJT. The .DJT are, in effect, a table of changes to your stock tune and that is the file that is being modified as your bike is tuned.
So, Dynojet do not load 'generic' tunes onto a PVCX when they sell it, as the .DJT must be compatible with your bike. What will normally occur is that you take delivery of the unit, read you stock tune and then email it to them. They can then do up an appropriate canned or base tune for you to load.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Perfect! Spoke to Rob at Robs dyno service just a bit ago (he says HI). He is the grand father of the PVCX! I think he would be perfect to tune for me/us to get maximum results? He is willing to let me email the tunes to him for him to modify (narrow band). Working through the details now. Will definitely do Rob, Craig (if local) or fuelmoto. What are your thoughts?
 
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