for those that debate value for Victory versus HD. OTD price on a Judge depending on location is roughly MSRP. $14000 from several threads I have read and paid attention to. Trade in value on the Judge is a little over 9k, trade in value for the closest rival the Fat Bob is 10.7K. MSRP for the Fat Bob is $15,500 in black and $500 more for the color option. Now The Fat Bob goes OTD for about another 1K to 1.5K due to setup, delivery, HD wax tax and whatever else they charge. So they both drop the same amount from MSRP but you end up losing more on the HD because of the additional fees that they charge.