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Discussion Starter #1
Good afternoon friends! I’m not an expert or technical when it comes to bikes but I wanted to see if anyone has the same problem or knows what might be the root cause. Problem is as follows:

My 05’ Vegas does not accelerate or rather does not have a friction zone. I must always
add throttle to go in first gear or any gear.
If I’m at a dead stop, I will stall if I let the clutch out slow while looking for the friction zone and do not add throttle.

A friend who has had bikes says that my bike is too heavy to have a friction zone.
I’m politiely calling bs and think there might be a problem. Anyone know about this?

Thank you

Robert
 

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dunno about your vegas but neither my former Hammer nor my current Cross Roads will go anywhere with just letting the clutch out. i can't think of any bike i have ever had that would besides one of my sportbikes and my first ducati Monster....
 

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Discussion Starter #4
What oil do you use in your bike? As these are wet clutches a synthetic oil would give you more slippage in that zone your talking about.
Hey Tony, thanks for the response. I’m not sure about the oil but I’ll call the place that did the seasonal work/fluid changes before I took her out on the road.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
dunno about your vegas but neither my former Hammer nor my current Cross Roads will go anywhere with just letting the clutch out. i can't think of any bike i have ever had that would besides one of my sportbikes and my first ducati Monster....
What up Monster, this is my first bigger cruiser. I learned on a 1200 Sportster and there was a friction zone. Let out the clutch about half way and the bike moved without throttle. Maybe the work buddy was right about the weight of my bike. Thanks for the response.
 

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I gotta call out Tony-v on his comment about syn oils. Not true! If its rated JASO-MA or MA2 it is wet clutch compatible, such as Rotella T6 which many here use, including myself.
+ Is your clutch adjusted per the manual, with the proper amount of slack?
+ Have you been using a non JASO-MA oil? If so, replace it and the filter and put in Rotella T6 as it has a heavier detergent content than others being a Diesel engine oil. It will help to clean out the ravages of that non JASO-MA junk.
+ After doing that, ride 100+ miles and report back.
+ Or...If JASO-MA was put in, your bike can simply have a worn clutch.
 

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You have a friction zone. If the bike does not pull with the clutch lever pulled all the way in and does pull fully with the clutch lever all the way out, then you must have passed through a friction zone. I think you are making a basic manual transmission error. There is no reason to worry about how much or how slowly you can release the clutch without simultaneously giving it throttle. The reason this is not a concern is that this is NOT how you should attempt to use the clutch. Instead, you want to simultaneously let out the clutch lever while twisting the throttle. Depending on how slow or fast you want to launch and how fast you want to be going when you have fully let out the clutch determines the rates at which you do the two simultaneous moves. Tiny throttle and slow clutch will creep forward and end with a very slow speed. Lots of throttle and fast clutch will launch you rapidly to a high speed. You simply do not use either control by itself when starting up. You use them together in beautiful concert.
 

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Basic Engineering 1 on 1

Cars, with the clutch you can touch the friction on idle, coz the fly wheel is BIG, this means low RPM engines


Motorcycles, with the clutch you can not touch the friction on idle, it will STALL, coz the fly wheel is SMALL, this means high RPM engines

Cars or motorcycles are not made to grind the clutch on IDLE RPM, just give a bit of gas and ride away, and enjoy the ride ....

I have a 270 CC go-cart and have to rev the [email protected]¡? out of it in first gear, coz the flywheel is super small, after that its all smooth

Andre using TaPaTaLk
 

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I'm sure there's a math equation for this but the mass of the bike must be compensated by the power of the engine to get moving just like it would to increase speed or launching from an incline (going up).

That sweet spot is different from bike to bike even with the same brand and model. They may be similar but there is a difference. At some point it's just second nature like, well, riding a bike. :)
 

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VVegas05....Are you saying that with the engine running and the bike in gear, you can let the clutch lever out all the way to its full extension and the bike will not move?
 

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Unless your clutch is out of spec you have a fraction zone. You just have to find it.

Neither of my Visions, Kingpin, Road King, or Sportster would get off the line if I let the clutch out without adding throttle. Like mentioned above it's a delicate blend of the two.

Now my Visions don't need much throttle you start rolling but they need some. Once I'm moving I can use less but I need a little too get them going. After that it's just a hammer if back and forth.

What's your use of the friction zone here? Are you trying to practice parking lot maneuvers? If so, the rear brake starts to play a large roll in making it all work.
 

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Just curious, do you by chance have an Easy Clutch on your bike? It's a longer than oem arm on the clutch actuation pivot down on the left side and on top of the clutch cover. If so, remove it asap and install the oem arm. Then, do as has been suggested with adjustment and proper JASO MA oil. The bike has to be absolutely overnight cold for the adjustment to be done properly. And err on the top of the adjustment range meaning the more freeplay, within spec, the better.
 

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If you look at the Prorider.com or ridelikeapro.com websites they will have videos on friction zone. These videos will likely explain it far better than can be done on a forum.
 

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I will respectfully disagree. I have an ez-clutch on all four of our XCT bikes and it works great on all of them. None of them have any clutch slippage and it reduces the effort necessary to pull in the clutch lever. It is more delicate to adjust than is the stock setup but it is still quite possible to find the proper amount of freeplay.

G'day,

Vinish
 

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Yeah what Vinish said and I'll add that my EZ-Pull extended the friction zone a bit, making low speed maneuvers more controllable.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
You have a friction zone. If the bike does not pull with the clutch lever pulled all the way in and does pull fully with the clutch lever all the way out, then you must have passed through a friction zone. I think you are making a basic manual transmission error. There is no reason to worry about how much or how slowly you can release the clutch without simultaneously giving it throttle. The reason this is not a concern is that this is NOT how you should attempt to use the clutch. Instead, you want to simultaneously let out the clutch lever while twisting the throttle. Depending on how slow or fast you want to launch and how fast you want to be going when you have fully let out the clutch determines the rates at which you do the two simultaneous moves. Tiny throttle and slow clutch will creep forward and end with a very slow speed. Lots of throttle and fast clutch will launch you rapidly to a high speed. You simply do not use either control by itself when starting up. You use them together in beautiful concert.[/QUOTE

You are correct that both the clutch and throttle are used in ‘beautiful concert’, and this is how I operate the Vegas.

What I’m concerned about is the lack of pull unless you use throttle. I’ve been on bikes that pull when you find the friction zone. That is - no throttle is used, only clutch.
With my Vegas, there is no friction zone.
If you’re in start-stop traffic, it’s a little bit of a nuisance to throttle and brake constantly rather than let the clutch in/out- feathering the clutch, to make up gaps in traffic.
I just wondered if this was the normal for Victory bikes of my vintage or if I had a problem with the bike.
 

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I gotta call out Tony-v on his comment about syn oils. Not true! If its rated JASO-MA or MA2 it is wet clutch compatible, such as Rotella T6 which many here use, including myself.
As we dont know what oil is in the bike we cant assume that it is the correct oil. A full synthetic oil will get in between the clutch plates better and give them better slippage when in that zone before it grabs.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Just curious, do you by chance have an Easy Clutch on your bike? It's a longer than oem arm on the clutch actuation pivot down on the left side and on top of the clutch cover. If so, remove it asap and install the oem arm. Then, do as has been suggested with adjustment and proper JASO MA oil. The bike has to be absolutely overnight cold for the adjustment to be done properly. And err on the top of the adjustment range meaning the more freeplay, within spec, the better.
I’ll look today and call the shop that serviced the bike. Thanks for all the ideas
and comments. I’m new to the technical side and appreciate everyone’s input.
 

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You're catching me at the beginning of MARCH, so it's been a while since I've let my clutch out, but as I'm reading this I'm thinking - I can't just let the clutch out on my Cross Country without giving it at least a LITTLE gas - can I? Heavier bike than the Vegas I know, but still, if I'm reading this right VVegas05 is looking to parade-crawl using just his clutch? Is that an important thing, or am I reading something wrong? I don't think a Cross Country can do it anyway.
 

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You are correct that both the clutch and throttle are used in ‘beautiful concert’, and this is how I operate the Vegas.

What I’m concerned about is the lack of pull unless you use throttle. I’ve been on bikes that pull when you find the friction zone. That is - no throttle is used, only clutch.
With my Vegas, there is no friction zone.
If you’re in start-stop traffic, it’s a little bit of a nuisance to throttle and brake constantly rather than let the clutch in/out- feathering the clutch, to make up gaps in traffic.
I just wondered if this was the normal for Victory bikes of my vintage or if I had a problem with the bike.
You again say, "There is no friction zone" but this is simply not true. What you mean is that the engine will stall when you enter the friction zone unless you simultaneously give it some throttle. I would say that this is completely normal. It is how all of my XCT bikes operate. Not a one of them will stay running on a flat road if I let out the clutch without giving it some throttle. I suppose I might be able to play with the clutch lever giving it very small successive movements and might be able to get up to crawling speed without stalling but this would be so much work and concentration that it would be unlikely to succeed very often and why bother trying when I can, instead, give it a tiny bit of throttle and then slowly let out the clutch in the situation you describe. Alternatively, like most manual transmission vehicles when stuck in slow moving stop and go traffic, I will likely have to simultaneously and repeatedly manipulate the clutch lever/pedal and throttle.

Bottom line - What you describe is normal for a large heavy bike with a properly adjusted low idle speed and not very much torque at 900 rpm like the Victory bikes. Don't fret, just go ride and enjoy :)

G'day,

Vinish
 
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