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I've switched from Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro to Lloydz VFC4. Here are my initial thoughts.

Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Pros: Set it and forget it. I didn't have to worry about maps, settings, reading numbers, reseraching, etc. Installed and rode worry free.
Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Cons: Being harassed on the forum because the unit was designed by the wrong Dobeck brother, or what was claimed on the spec sheet and what was actually achieved, etc.

Lloydz VFC4 Pros: It's so easy, my dog could start tuning (nothing derogatory towards my dog, he actually happens to be a very smart pooch).
Lloydz VFC4 Cons: I find myself staring at the gauge while riding! Not a good thing. Also, I see it in red-blue flashing under hard throttle - I thought I was supposed to see solid Red. Does anybody know?

What I liked about Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro is what I like about VFC4 as well: both of them adjust on the road, where all factors are being considered (temperature, wind load, grade of the road, weight of rider, etc.)
 

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Sounds like it might be an improvement over the VFC-III, so I went onto Lloydz web site and it isn't there. Do you have a link to it you can supply?
 

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My wife dragged me away over the weekend but I was able to finally get my Cobra Fi2000 installed Monday morning before work. While I had the tank off I removed the air-dam.
I managed to get a 20mile ride in and I'm happy with the tuner, no it didn't turn the bike into a rocket ship, but its got better power and response, especially in the lower rpm ranges. I tried hard but could not get a backfire or decel pop out of it. I defiantly like the idea that I don't have to worry about tuning for future upgrades.
 

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I've switched from Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro to Lloydz VFC4. Here are my initial thoughts.

Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Pros: Set it and forget it. I didn't have to worry about maps, settings, reading numbers, reseraching, etc. Installed and rode worry free.
Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Cons: Being harassed on the forum because the unit was designed by the wrong Dobeck brother, or what was claimed on the spec sheet and what was actually achieved, etc.

Lloydz VFC4 Pros: It's so easy, my dog could start tuning (nothing derogatory towards my dog, he actually happens to be a very smart pooch).
Lloydz VFC4 Cons: I find myself staring at the gauge while riding! Not a good thing. Also, I see it in red-blue flashing under hard throttle - I thought I was supposed to see solid Red. Does anybody know?

What I liked about Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro is what I like about VFC4 as well: both of them adjust on the road, where all factors are being considered (temperature, wind load, grade of the road, weight of rider, etc.)
You didn't mention whether or not your arms are torn out of their sockets now.

I added a little cheapie fuel controller recently. I've had to back it down to almost nothing. It runs fine 99.9% of the time, but for some reason, every so often the bike nearly dies when I accelerate from a stop. The bike never did that before I added the controller.

I can't put my finger on anything I'm doing different from one stop to the next, and the intermittence of the problem is annoying. But since I've dialed it back, it has quit its stumbling.
 

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Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Pros: Set it and forget it. I didn't have to worry about maps, settings, reading numbers, reseraching, etc. Installed and rode worry free.
So... I think the question on everybody's mind is why a man who has a fuel controller this perfect, would switch to something else?


Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Cons: Being harassed on the forum because the unit was designed by the wrong Dobeck brother, or what was claimed on the spec sheet and what was actually achieved, etc.
You were the victim of harassment? Really?
People pointed out that it didn't do what the brochure claimed it would do. No more, no less. The only victims were those who fell prey to that bullshit brochure. Cobra victimized you, not any forum members. You didn't like the message, so you blame the messenger.


all factors are being considered (temperature, wind load, grade of the road, weight of rider, etc.)
If the Cobra actually did any of that you wouldn't be replacing it.

Please explain how a unit that only reads crank rotation manages to get information on rider weight, grade, weather, and wind conditions? Buddy, that's one hell of an algorithm! At least the VFC-4/AFR+ is reading an O2 sensor for information.
 

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Solid yellow blue (Y/B) is what you should see when you are in closed loop cruising mode. solid R/B is what you will see when you are in acceleration closed loop. closed loop is when the controller maintains the settings you made in yellow alone or red alone.

If you want to read about this controller go to http://afrplus.com/
 

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I've switched from Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro to Lloydz VFC4. Here are my initial thoughts.

Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Pros: Set it and forget it. I didn't have to worry about maps, settings, reading numbers, reseraching, etc. Installed and rode worry free.
Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Cons: Being harassed on the forum because the unit was designed by the wrong Dobeck brother, or what was claimed on the spec sheet and what was actually achieved, etc.

Lloydz VFC4 Pros: It's so easy, my dog could start tuning (nothing derogatory towards my dog, he actually happens to be a very smart pooch).
Lloydz VFC4 Cons: I find myself staring at the gauge while riding! Not a good thing. Also, I see it in red-blue flashing under hard throttle - I thought I was supposed to see solid Red. Does anybody know?

What I liked about Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro is what I like about VFC4 as well: both of them adjust on the road, where all factors are being considered (temperature, wind load, grade of the road, weight of rider, etc.)

cool ! good to hear someone that has one , and its probably due to the many people i have suggested to get your headlight kits !! haha


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You're sure its a VFC-4 and not a VCF-3?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Sounds like it might be an improvement over the VFC-III, so I went onto Lloydz web site and it isn't there. Do you have a link to it you can supply?
You have to call Lloydz to get one. They're not on his website yet.
You didn't mention whether or not your arms are torn out of their sockets now.
So far I'm learning how to use this thing, so nothing has been torn yet.

So... I think the question on everybody's mind is why a man who has a fuel controller this perfect, would switch to something else?
I never said I had the perfect one, because I don't think a perfect one exists.

If the Cobra actually did any of that you wouldn't be replacing it.
I see your point, but I am intrigued by the ability to change the A/F ratio between peak power and peak fuel economy to match the kind of trip I'm on.

Please explain how a unit that only reads crank rotation manages to get information on rider weight, grade, weather, and wind conditions? Buddy, that's one hell of an algorithm! At least the VFC-4/AFR+ is reading an O2 sensor for information.
Yeah, that naughty O² sensor was the toughest part of the whole install. Apparently they're tightened by the Incredible Hulk.
Solid yellow blue (Y/B) is what you should see when you are in closed loop cruising mode. solid R/B is what you will see when you are in acceleration closed loop. closed loop is when the controller maintains the settings you made in yellow alone or red alone.http://afrplus.com/
I see green on deceleration or idle, when throttle's closed. The rest of the time, from mild acceleration to wot I get solid red and blue. I'm still confused why I don't see yellow at all. I thought I would see that when just coasting with minimal throttle.
 

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I see green on deceleration or idle, when throttle's closed. The rest of the time, from mild acceleration to wot I get solid red and blue. I'm still confused why I don't see yellow at all. I thought I would see that when just coasting with minimal throttle.

Your red/blue is set to low.....http://afrplus.com/AFRplus-tuning.asp

I have had one for about 2 weeks now. Sounds like you have not got the switch points quite where your bikes needs them. Y/B should be adjusted to get into closed loop (yellow blue) as early as possible. On my bike this is around 11. then set your R/B to only come on when you get into the throttle ( on mine i think it is about 14). You will see a grean light on coast or decel. and flashing blue when the injectors shut down when the throttle is closed. Normal progression you should see green, yellow, yellow/blue/, red/blue.

I think it is a little confusing, but the only modes that you adjust an A/F ratio on are the yellow and red modes. The other modes are how much fuel is added or subtracted and use the numbers on the gauge as reference only. For example my green mode is set to about 11.5-12- but I am getting 13.2-13.5 at idle.

So far I am very happy with the unit. It works as advertised, and has improved the performance of my bike quite a bit.

I was waiting for loydz to get them, but got tired of the "It will be ready soon" replies I was getting from them. Finally went straight to Dobeck for mine. Not sure how the loydz branded unit could be better, since you are basically building your own map based on your riding style. For me this is head and shoulders above a vcf3. Having the feed back from the gauge is fantastic.


m
 

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Please explain how a unit that only reads crank rotation manages to get information on rider weight, grade, weather, and wind conditions?
Seems to me that if a unit could genuinely optimize power out (how fast the crank turns) to power in (fuel), such things as the fitness of the rider, how he scored on his math test, or whether or not he's riding in hail would be immaterial. (Assuming max power is the goal)

Buddy, that's one hell of an algorithm! At least the VFC-4/AFR+ is reading an O2 sensor for information.
That's an indirect way of controlling it. It will adjust fuel based on exhaust oxygen levels, not actual power. A simple exhaust leak could throw such a measure into the weeds.

It's kinda like making a power supply controller that uses the intensity of the light generated by a bulb it's feeding rather than simply reading the voltage at the load and adjusting the "power in" accordingly.

I'm not making any claims on the effectiveness of any piece of equipment, only noting that in concept, the Cobra makes more sense.
 

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I'm not making any claims on the effectiveness of any piece of equipment, only noting that in concept, the Cobra makes more sense.
If the unit actually optimized the tuning, automatically, full time/real time like they claim it will, I might concede the point, but it doesn't. Whether it 'makes sense' on the surface is of no consequence, either it will or it won't. Talk is cheap.
 

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I have the Fi2000 auto tuner. It's still pretty new to me as I've only had it for a few weeks and only a few hundred miles on it, but it certainly backfires plenty on deceleration. Also I've had a few check engine codes. Two for each O2 sensors being lean and one for the idle air control circuit out of range. Also on two different tanks, my fuel milage has gone to hell. Haven't even hit 150 miles on this current tank and the engine light is on. This is the second time this has happened.
 

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I have the Fi2000 auto tuner. It's still pretty new to me as I've only had it for a few weeks and only a few hundred miles on it, but it certainly backfires plenty on deceleration. Also I've had a few check engine codes. Two for each O2 sensors being lean and one for the idle air control circuit out of range. Also on two different tanks, my fuel milage has gone to hell. Haven't even hit 150 miles on this current tank and the engine light is on. This is the second time this has happened.
I am sorry to hear of your issues. It seems like the Cobra works best with the O2s unplugged from what I have read. The O2s and the Cobra seem to be in a constant battle with each other.
 

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I am sorry to hear of your issues. It seems like the Cobra works best with the O2s unplugged from what I have read. The O2s and the Cobra seem to be in a constant battle with each other.
Thanks. I've had nothing but troubles with this bikes upgrades lately. I actually didn't even want the Cobra, but conceded to it after some troubles with the PCV and since I wasn't footing the bill (birthday present from dad). I don't really understand how the thing works. From what I've read, it is only running during acceleration, but when cruising or decelerating, it reverts to the stock tune. So by that reasoning, disconnecting the O2 sensors will cause the engine to run richer when cruising and decelerating right? Just like it does for everybody else running the stock setup. Which kinda makes me wonder if I still shouldn't get the bike tuned on the dyno for the stock tune while it cruises.
 

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You have to call Lloydz to get one. They're not on his website yet.
Funny I spent the better part of Friday and Saturday with the fellow, along with Kyle (KMC).. As much much stuff as we shot the bull about, the AFR+ / VFC4 never came to mind as a topic. I completely forgot to ask anything about it. I guess as Kyle was dialing her in, one cell at a time, memory of all other tuners faded. Especially seeing all the resolution in the trims he was mapping individually.

At every throttle position, from idle to initial, to lightly cracked cruising, to mid-heavy pulling, to WOT.. At any RPM.. It's perfect. I will never look back. Nice to never question the choice or think maybe try that one, or this one.

That said, I do hope the new one works nicely for you. CR I won't give you a bit of grief about it. Prior to being highly indoctrinated into cams and goodies so she can now run correctly, I would have run the AFR+ / VFC4 and had a blast with it, with a filter and mufflers only.

I gotta say though, after experiencing how my bike runs now, I can never recommend anything less than saving up the cash for not only a PCV, but also Lloydz filter, VM1 cams at least, and timing wheel.

Those mods to me now are not just cool, but "necessary upgrades".
As Lloyd described it to me, the bike is "happy now" it can finally breathe.
In my opinion, they should come from the factory like that.. But forget sales in Cali.

So yeah, I've drank the cool-aid, but instead of poison, it was pretty darn tasty.
Actually it was the jello-shooters Jon (WD) kept passing around that were dangerous.
 

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Thanks. I've had nothing but troubles with this bikes upgrades lately. I actually didn't even want the Cobra, but conceded to it after some troubles with the PCV and since I wasn't footing the bill (birthday present from dad). I don't really understand how the thing works. From what I've read, it is only running during acceleration, but when cruising or decelerating, it reverts to the stock tune. So by that reasoning, disconnecting the O2 sensors will cause the engine to run richer when cruising and decelerating right? Just like it does for everybody else running the stock setup. Which kinda makes me wonder if I still shouldn't get the bike tuned on the dyno for the stock tune while it cruises.
The problem will be that you need something to tune it with. You can't tune the stock ECU and you can't tune the Cobra. The stage 1 flash is notoriously lean at cruise and the Cobra would might make it too rich on acceleration, so that's probably not the answer (plus it will cost you more money).

Honestly, for what you have (airbox & pipes) the VFC-III would be just fine to tune it with.
Not what you want to hear right now, I know.
 

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The problem will be that you need something to tune it with. You can't tune the stock ECU and you can't tune the Cobra. The stage 1 flash is notoriously lean at cruise and the Cobra would might make it too rich on acceleration, so that's probably not the answer (plus it will cost you more money).

Honestly, for what you have (airbox & pipes) the VFC-III would be just fine to tune it with.
Not what you want to hear right now, I know.
Unfortunately, buying anything else is out of the question. The bike would have stayed bone stock if it wasn't for my birthday for many years as I can't afford to put anything on it. So what's the best option I have without buying anything else?
 

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Unfortunately, buying anything else is out of the question. The bike would have stayed bone stock if it wasn't for my birthday for many years as I can't afford to put anything on it. So what's the best option I have without buying anything else?
Unplug the O2s and run it.
 
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