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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hay group, my 2010 Cross Country's fuel pump has been not coming on with the key sometimes lately. The first time, just toggling the key on and off cleared it but a couple days ago, just before an important long-distance ride, she was totally uncooperative and I was in a panic so I came HERE of course and learned that the fuel relay is know to get lazy on older bikes and simply swapping it with one of the adjacent identical relays often temporarily rectifies the problem. Well it DIDN'T immediately, but after some contact cleaning and more swapping it finally did trigger the fuel pump and I was able to start and make my trip uneventfully, with the bike running fine since. But I gotta admit I'm properly scared every time I turn that key now and that's just no fun so it must be fixed beyond any doubt.

Here's the offending part (pic below) which I need to locate and purchase at least one of, if not all 3, which I presume are identical and all prone to the same degradation. I'll be asking Paulee of Honda East Toledo for pricing and availability on these but before I do does anyone know of other components in that chain of command that should be replaced? I thought I read something about a flasher and some other diode... causing electrical gremlins. Nobody needs gremlins. If there is a recommended total-procedure I think it's time for me to do it. Thanks for any assistance and hopefully this post can serve as a reference on part numbers and current availability.
-id

 

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Take it to NAPA and see what they can do for you. These parts come from the car world.
I would write Rylan and ask him what might be going on.

Email [email protected]
Phone (515) 339-4313
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Take it to NAPA and see what they can do for you. These parts come from the car world.
I would write Rylan and ask him what might be going on.

Email [email protected]
Phone (515) 339-4313
Well I was afraid of that, I emailed Rylan Monday and have gotten no response. I can't blame him for not jumping immediately at the chance to give away his time for free to every Shmoe who has a question - BUT - it kinda worries me that now I can't get the fuel pump to initialize at all no matter how many times I swap around the 3 relays or toggle the key or killswitch. The circuit is just not completing and I'm concerned that the problem is deeper than just a relay. On it's best day I was always kinda on my own with this bike since the closest authorized service or parts is 70 miles away but since the 'orphaning' it's starting to feel pretty lonely <tear rolls down cheek>. FWIW so far I haven't found an exact match to the relay anywhere but Victory so I guess I better get to ordering it (them) and hold my breath that it improves the situation.
 

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Anyway, 3 relays are now on their way to me from Holda East Toledo - THANKS PAULIE! We'll see if that makes any difference.
i would have put a jumper across the terminals or measured to see if the relay is even getting 12 volts to fire up. if you put your finger on the relay you should feel it click when 12 volts is applied to the coil.
 

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Does it turn over when you hit the start button? Do you regularly use the kill switch to shut off the bike?
If your answers are no and yes. You most likely have a bad kill switch contact in the right switch cube
 

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Discussion Starter #9
i would have put a jumper across the terminals or measured to see if the relay is even getting 12 volts to fire up. if you put your finger on the relay you should feel it click when 12 volts is applied to the coil.
Ah, now there is some advice I could have used a few days ago. So if I unclip the fuse block and turn it over to the backside will I be able to access the terminals you're talking about from back there? I had that fuse block in my hands a few times but never really turned it over to examine the backside. I think I can get my hands on a meter to measure voltage, which wire coming out of the backside of that fuseblock should I be testing for 12 volts - and in the name of education - if it's anything under 12 volts, what would be causing that deficit, a weak stator or some other sort of voltage regulator device?

http://www.victoryforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=240690&thumb=1

apply 12 volts across pin 86 and 85, then check for continuity between pin 87 and 30.
I would be surprised if it was the relay. maybe a bad connection, loose or corroded.
Do you have any advice on how one would go about cleaning the terminals inside a contact block like this? (fuse box). And when you say apply 12v across pins I presume you mean with the relay unplugged, or can that be done by poking leads into the backside of the block? I'm suddenly having visions of cracking open my battery compartment and fashioning alligator clip leads in the dirt.

The bike does not run, right?
Oh the bike runs beautifully - ONCE you hear the fuel pump initialize and prime itself. But until you get that sound all it's gonna do is crank and never fire.

Does it turn over when you hit the start button? Do you regularly use the kill switch to shut off the bike?
If your answers are no and yes. You most likely have a bad kill switch contact in the right switch cube
As said above, it'll crank (forever) but not fire when I hit the start button, and yes I use the kill switch all the time. Doesn't everyone? When you roll up to a stop and go to turn off your motor, how do you take your left hand off your clutch to turn the key unless you kill the motor first? And don't say shift into neutral because you know a Cross Country doesn't do that worth a damn :)
 

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Ah, now there is some advice I could have used a few days ago. So if I unclip the fuse block and turn it over to the backside will I be able to access the terminals you're talking about from back there? I had that fuse block in my hands a few times but never really turned it over to examine the backside. I think I can get my hands on a meter to measure voltage, which wire coming out of the backside of that fuseblock should I be testing for 12 volts - and in the name of education - if it's anything under 12 volts, what would be causing that deficit, a weak stator or some other sort of voltage regulator device?

Do you have any advice on how one would go about cleaning the terminals inside a contact block like this? (fuse box). And when you say apply 12v across pins I presume you mean with the relay unplugged, or can that be done by poking leads into the backside of the block? I'm suddenly having visions of cracking open my battery compartment and fashioning alligator clip leads in the dirt.

Oh the bike runs beautifully - ONCE you hear the fuel pump initialize and prime itself. But until you get that sound all it's gonna do is crank and never fire.

As said above, it'll crank (forever) but not fire when I hit the start button, and yes I use the kill switch all the time. Doesn't everyone? When you roll up to a stop and go to turn off your motor, how do you take your left hand off your clutch to turn the key unless you kill the motor first? And don't say shift into neutral because you know a Cross Country doesn't do that worth a damn :)
well i would clean the relay terminals. i would make sure you hear and feel the Puel pump relay click when you turn on the key and the kill switch. If you dont then the coil is not being energized. By looking at the electrical diagram of the relay, there appears to be a resister in parallel with the coil so Therese will be a voltage drop across that. Not sure why the have that, unless that is supposed to be a diode and not a resister. A diode is must commonly used for prevent feedback. Again... put a finger on top of the relay and try to get the fuel pump to prime
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Um Ok I cleaned the terminals on the relay immediately, I thought you were talking about the contacts down inside the block. I don't think this could be a contact issue anymore from the sheer number of times everything been unplugged, cleaned and reseated. I do get clicking of the relays while they're inside the fuse block but honestly I couldn't tell which relay it's coming from by listening or feeling...maybe I should do that one again and be try harder. I appreciate the input.
 

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Vic sure could put the ignition switch in a better location
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Relays got here from Paulie - quick!! Installed the first one and BINGO instant fuel pump initialization!
Is that all there is to it? I don't know but I'm riding again and that's all I need to know for now. I'll just add that the new parts look different than the old ones from 2010 (they're smaller) so Polaris must have upgraded somewhere along the line - pics below. New part number too. But they sure work good! If more issues develop with this down the road I'll revive this thread and update it but for anyone reading who's experiencing the same problem - these replacement relays cost me $12 apiece shipped by emailing Paulie @ Honda East Toledo direct and they arrived in 3 days. I probably could have bought just the one but consider this cheap insurance against future sorrow. Back on the road again YeeHaa!!

 

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relays got here from paulie - quick!! Installed the first one and bingo instant fuel pump initialization!
Is that all there is to it? I don't know but i'm riding again and that's all i need to know for now. I'll just add that the new parts look different than the old ones from 2010 (they're smaller) so polaris must have upgraded somewhere along the line - pics below. New part number too. But they sure work good! If more issues develop with this down the road i'll revive this thread and update it but for anyone reading who's experiencing the same problem - these replacement relays cost me $12 apiece shipped by emailing paulie @ honda east toledo direct and they arrived in 3 days. I probably could have bought just the one but consider this cheap insurance against future sorrow. Back on the road again yeehaa!!

excellent!
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
NOT EXCELLENT!!!
The new relays did NOT permanently resolve this fuel pump issue - it came back the very next morning and the saga continued. Jockeying relays around could get the bike started if I did it enough times - and weirdly, once she started once she'd start fine all day - but that's no way to live. In reading the bike's manual there was a fuel pump testing procedure telling how to bypass the fuel pump relay completely by jumpering across two legs of the relay block (pull out the relay and stick a wire diagonally as shown in the first pic below). This will initialize the fuel pump whether the kill switch is on or off, and you can start the bike, but again, no way to live, so a real solution was still needed.

After more searching of past threads on this forum and others, I came across a couple mentions of people replacing their flasher module to resolve intermittent starter and fuel pump operation. With nothing but $55 to lose I ordered one up from Paulie of Honda East Toledo and I finally got it plugged in a couple days ago. I was happy but not convinced when the fuel pump immediately initialized and the bike sprang to life - I'd been fooled before by the new relays - so I withheld by excitement till the next morning when she STILL initialized like normal and ran perfect. I still withheld about 20% excitement till later in the day when all was still well, and the big test - this morning, for the 3rd day in a row, all is good, I THINK SHE'S FIXED!! Oh man It is such a relief to have Scrolly back on the road at my beck and call whenever I'm ready.

So if my troubles can help anybody out there - 3 points to learn; in a pinch, swap around your relays and maybe get lucky; if that doesn't help jump across the legs as shown but make sure you get it right as putting 12v to the wrong leg could damage the bike's ECU. The second image shows how the fuse relay is oriented in the fusebox - if you're squatting beside the left side of the bike with the sidecover removed and the fuel pump relay pulled, the hot leg is the upper left and you want to jump it to the lower right. You'll hear the whine instantly. After a few seconds you can remove the jumper and reinsert the relay, start the bike and get where you need to be. Lastly, if all that fails, just get the friggin flasher module and you're welcome :) Hope it helps someone.



How fuse block is oriented on the right side of the bike - fuel relay is toward the upper left. I should mention that it's much easier to do anything on the fuseblock if you unhook it from it's perch. Grab the wire bundle running into the fuse block and feel underneath it for a 1" long plastic tab or leg that you can squeeze to release a lock and the whole block comes off so you can get a good view of it.





And here's the bitch that was really causing all the problems in my case - Paulie has them in stock if you need one. It also lives under the right sidecover, beside the fusebox, right under the air shock Schrader valve. 60 second part swap.

 

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NOT EXCELLENT!!!
The new relays did NOT permanently resolve this fuel pump issue - it came back the very next morning and the saga continued. Jockeying relays around could get the bike started if I did it enough times - and weirdly, once she started once she'd start fine all day - but that's no way to live. In reading the bike's manual there was a fuel pump testing procedure telling how to bypass the fuel pump relay completely by jumpering across two legs of the relay block (pull out the relay and stick a wire diagonally as shown in the first pic below). This will initialize the fuel pump whether the kill switch is on or off, and you can start the bike, but again, no way to live, so a real solution was still needed.

After more searching of past threads on this forum and others, I came across a couple mentions of people replacing their flasher module to resolve intermittent starter and fuel pump operation. With nothing but $55 to lose I ordered one up from Paulie of Honda East Toledo and I finally got it plugged in a couple days ago. I was happy but not convinced when the fuel pump immediately initialized and the bike sprang to life - I'd been fooled before by the new relays - so I withheld by excitement till the next morning when she STILL initialized like normal and ran perfect. I still withheld about 20% excitement till later in the day when all was still well, and the big test - this morning, for the 3rd day in a row, all is good, I THINK SHE'S FIXED!! Oh man It is such a relief to have Scrolly back on the road at my beck and call whenever I'm ready.

So if my troubles can help anybody out there - 3 points to learn; in a pinch, swap around your relays and maybe get lucky; if that doesn't help jump across the legs as shown but make sure you get it right as putting 12v to the wrong leg could damage the bike's ECU. The second image shows how the fuse relay is oriented in the fusebox - if you're squatting beside the left side of the bike with the sidecover removed and the fuel pump relay pulled, the hot leg is the upper left and you want to jump it to the lower right. You'll hear the whine instantly. After a few seconds you can remove the jumper and reinsert the relay, start the bike and get where you need to be. Lastly, if all that fails, just get the friggin flasher module and you're welcome :) Hope it helps someone.



Funny ( well not really funny) that you mentioned this. Sometime ago i saw a video from some Vic mechanic stating that same module can cause some really unexpected behavior. So I myself ordered one and keep it on my shelf.

at about 4:50 of the video
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Funny you should mention that video Jim, it was one of the reasons I decided to get the flasher, and it reminds me of part of the backstory of this saga that I hadn't mentioned. I had emailed Rylan Voss of the Vic Shop about this matter and asked him specifically about that flasher. He didn't respond for weeks because he was on a long trip but when he did finally get back to me the communication was pretty spotty. He asked a couple times for clarification of the symptoms but never really recommended anything specific. I'm pretty sure if you look up the phrase "too busy" in the dictionary it shows his picture. I just left it with him that I would let him know if I figured it out so I guess that should be my next email. Thanks for the reminder.
 

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Funny you should mention that video Jim, it was one of the reasons I decided to get the flasher, and it reminds me of part of the backstory of this saga that I hadn't mentioned. I had emailed Rylan Voss of the Vic Shop about this matter and asked him specifically about that flasher. He didn't respond for weeks because he was on a long trip but when he did finally get back to me the communication was pretty spotty. He asked a couple times for clarification of the symptoms but never really recommended anything specific. I'm pretty sure if you look up the phrase "too busy" in the dictionary it shows his picture. I just left it with him that I would let him know if I figured it out so I guess that should be my next email. Thanks for the reminder.
well i looked at the pinout of the flasher in the manual and it is difficult to figure out where the Fuel Pump not priming comes in. But as that video says, ' just try another one and see if it works', well that tells me that HE doesn't know what exactly it does either. The electrical diagrams for this bike SUCK. I am sure Victory Engineering didn't have crappy drawings like this. I had a Honda VTX and the electrical drawings showed me everything and i could trace back any electrical issue. So this flasher may in fact do more than just 'flash' ****. :) glad it is running and i hope it stays running. ride safe and often
 

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Here's a thought. What about the possibility of a bad connection inside of the fuse block? Would explain why moving the relays might have helped (and moved some of the connections slightly). I know about bad fuse blocks. Had a 2002 Dodge Ram with a bad fuse block :p
 
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