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Discussion Starter #1
I have just purchased a used set of Stage 1 pipes for my Vegas and I already have the performance air filter and vent. Next step is a fuel tuner. Any suggestions on a reasonably priced, easy to install and easy to use one? I was looking at the Ness Cheap Shot, but I don't really want to splice into any wires. Looks like the Lloydz and Wiesco (?) one plug into existing connectors on the bike. Just wondering what people prefer.

Thanks!
 

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if you want to go the cheaper,easier way
take it to a dealer and have the stage1
download installed.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the input guys. I think the Power Commander is a little more product than I need. I really just need whatever it takes to make the bike run good. Not looking for huge performance. Just more sound. The Stage 1 download would be nice. Didn't know the dealer could do just that part for me. Any ideas what that would cost? I like cheaper, but I have a feeling my local dealer will gouge me on it.
 

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Some dealers cheers some :ltr: When I called my dealer and asked what I nneded to do to get a Stage 1 flash (I'd bought a set cheap), his reply was "Buy a set of pipes" Finally talked to Kate at Honda East and found out about $100 for the card, dealer will probably charge $100 - unless you get one who really likes to create relationships. I ended up gpoing the PCV route. $300 and I put it in myself. Spent an extra $100, but if and when I decide to do other changes I juts have to do another map (free).
 

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Go with power commander. Can do way more adjustments with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
So I got my pipes today and want to put them on. Will it cause a problem if I put them on and run them until I figure out what I want to do for a fuel tuner?
 

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So I got my pipes today and want to put them on. Will it cause a problem if I put them on and run them until I figure out what I want to do for a fuel tuner?
Your bike will run alot leaner with pipes and filter with no tuner. I just put on the Lloydz VFC III and really like it. It really smoothed it out and added a little more giddy up. I found the Lloydz on eBay for $189, I think they're $279 retail.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for your input. Lloydz is the direction I am leaning. I've been looking around for a used one, but I'm sure they are hard to find. Especially the VFC III for the newer bikes. May just have to splurg on a new one, but sounds like I can run it without for awhile and not hurt anything.
 

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Run just the pipes and keep the stock air cleaner, and unplug your o2 sensors. Bike will run fine. You'll get the occasional backfire, but that's common even with a tuner. I ran that way for a while and my fuel mileage was the same as it was with the stock pipes on. So, I'd say I couldn't have been too lean. Keep in mind. Your motor is a big air pump. If you don't take more air in, you can't really put more air out. Right ? Just keep the stock air cleaner on.
 

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Thanks for your input. Lloydz is the direction I am leaning. I've been looking around for a used one, but I'm sure they are hard to find. Especially the VFC III for the newer bikes. May just have to splurg on a new one, but sounds like I can run it without for awhile and not hurt anything.
One big advantage to buying a Lloydz VFC3 new from Lloydz is you can tell them what mods you have done and they will set it up for your bike. Plug and play! I think that's worth something. thumb up
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well, I was able to install my new pipes last night. I didn't get to go for a ride, but it sounded sweet when I started it up. I think I'm going to get a Lloydz tuner, but I have another question. I see everyone saying to disconnect the O2 sensors. Just wondering why that is?
 

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I see everyone saying to disconnect the O2 sensors. Just wondering why that is?
Makes the engine run richer and cooler. thumb up
 

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Discussion Starter #14
So until I get a tuner, just unplug them and tie the wires out of the way?
 

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So the O2 sensor makes the engine run lean, correct? What is the purpose of the lean run? does it make less emissions that way?
It's not the O2 sensor that makes the engine run lean. The O2 sensor just registers how completely the fuel was combusted and feeds that information back to the ECU which makes adjustments to the amount of fuel it feeds based on what the O2 sensor registered. This is called a "closed loop" system.

The EPA requires manufacturers to target an unrealistic air to fuel ratio which is very low on emissions, but not very healthy for the engine. Fortunately Victory decided to incorporate logic into it's ECU so that should the O2 sensor become disabled it will fall back to the fuel feed characteristics of an "open loop" system that doesn't have this feedback loop and which is richer. Harley, for example, doesn't do this. If it's O2 sensor becomes disabled the bike won't even start.

The general principle is that "lean" is faster, but hotter...but that's only to a degree. At a certain point (which is where the EPA has set it's standards) it's actually less efficient power-wise, but still hotter. The EPA isn't interested in power production and it's not interested in longevity of the engine..it's only interest is in emissions. And that's the story of why disconnecting the O2 sensor has become the trend on Victory engines, and why Harley riders continue to gripe about the heat produced on their engines.
 

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The o2 sensors actually aid in keeping the mixture lean. They are narrow band sensors, and tell the ecu to keep the mixture in the 14.4-15.0 area of air to fuel ratio(or close to that). The ideal ratio for an air cooled motor is near 13.5 . The map in the ecu is a little leaner than that, but still richer than the narrow band o2 sensors' ability to compensate. The lean condition is simply set to control emissions. Unplug your o2 sensors and let them unplugged.
 

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my experience

I have Ness slip-ons and air filter on my 12 CCT and the factory re-flash of the computer. The bike runs really strong compared to my 88 C.I. '02 Road King (which I traded on the CCT) However it is still way lean. The 106 feels like a barbecue grill between my legs, and it pops and cracks alot, even stalling occasionally when the throttle is blipped on a downshift. I contacted MPH in Peninsula Ohio, (Dynojet authorized dyno tuner) I am getting a PCV and dynotune on Aug. 7 and will let you know the results. The owner of MPH strongly discouraged the autotune module despite loosing a nearly $400 sale of that module. His opinion is that the dyno tune will result in much better performance for less $$$$.
 
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