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Discussion Starter #1
http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/big-gun-blow-harley-davidson-fxsb-breakout-vs-victory-gunner

Pretty good review:
Tommy sums it all up: “While the scoring was close, I think it’d be easy for me, given the situation of spending my own money on one of the two motorcycles, to purchase the Gunner and use what I save to buy some new riding gear, bike accessories, then take the wife on a weekend ride to a fancy resort … The Victory Gunner is less expensive, more comfortable and smokes the Breakout in every performance category. Shootout won.”

Life is good:)
 

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My buddy on his Breakout has been chasing me on my Hammer since he brought his home! I still remember the disappointed look on his face the first time I spanked him, then again when he put the V&H pipes on, then again when he bought his big sucker air cleaner and again when he put the power commander on, lol you get the point...
 

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A V-Rod and Hammer comparo isn't apples to apples
Yes... the HP & torque numbers are almost reversed....

This is old... 2010... but it shows the comparison.

69 cubic inch V-Rod made 104/69
100 cubic inch Hammer made 75/93

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/harley-davidson-night-rod-special-vs-victory-hammer-s-american-muscle

Truth: The Hammer/Hammer S models were "Muscle Cruisers" only as a styling exercise. Same engine as every other Victory motorcycle... no more muscle than any other model.

The V-Rod has a completely different engine than other HD models. More like a sport bike engine than a cruiser engine. Closer to the engine in a Suzuki TL-1000 than to the Twin Cam big twin engine used in other HD models.
 

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Yes... the HP & torque numbers are almost reversed....

This is old... 2010... but it shows the comparison.

69 cubic inch V-Rod made 104/69
100 cubic inch Hammer made 75/93

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/harley-davidson-night-rod-special-vs-victory-hammer-s-american-muscle

Truth: The Hammer/Hammer S models were "Muscle Cruisers" only as a styling exercise. Same engine as every other Victory motorcycle... no more muscle than any other model.

The V-Rod has a completely different engine than other HD models. More like a sport bike engine than a cruiser engine. Closer to the engine in a Suzuki TL-1000 than to the Twin Cam big twin engine used in other HD models.
Yeah V-ROD engine was designed by Porsche so no surprise it goes
 

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A V-Rod and Hammer comparo isn't apples to apples though. Anyone can get more power out of a wet motor over an air-cooled one.

A Fat Bob and a Gunner would be a better comparison.
Not really. Overhead Cam vs Pushrod motor. You will always get more power from the overhead cam motor. Not apples to apples either.
 

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Not really. Overhead Cam vs Pushrod motor. You will always get more power from the overhead cam motor. Not apples to apples either.
It's not the water cooling... it's not the overhead cams...

The V-Rod engine is over-square (larger bore diameter than stroke length). The large bore means more room for bigger valves, the short stroke allows it to spin to high rpm and keep the piston speeds/stresses low. The V-Rod engine starts to run good (gets efficient) at around 4500 rpm and it spins out past 8500 rpm.

The Freedom 106 pulls from way down low but it's DONE at 4800 rpm. Due to being under-square (longer stroke than bore diameter), the stroke is so long that the pistons cannot accelerate, stop, change direction, accelerate, repeat to a very high rpm. Piston speeds/stresses would be off the chain and the pistons would fail.

Being that horsepower = torque x rpm / 5252 it is easy to see how a small, high-reving engine can make lots of horsepower.

Take a 600cc sport bike as an extreme example. It only makes 40 ft-lbs of torque... but 40 x 13,500 rpm / 5252 = 103 horsepower.

That said, it is easier to get an engine to rev high with overhead cams, and 4 valves helps too, but there have been some screamin' pushrod/2 valve engines that make truckloads of horsepower.

Water cooling helps to provide consistent temperatures and tighter clearances... this helps too, but again, not solely responsible for the output of the engine.
 

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As I said, comparing a Overheadcam motor vs a pushrod motor is apples & oranges. Comparing a Victory to a Harley is apples & oranges. Some people can't accept that fact. The overhead cam will always beat the pushrod motor. " My Victory beat a Harley" I should hope so.
 

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The overhead cam will always beat the pushrod motor.
You might have missed post #12....

How can a Yamaha Raider/Roadliner/Stratoliner pushrod motor make more HP per cubic inch than the overhead cam Victory motor?

Like I said.... the overhead cam part has little to do with it. How the valves are actuated is one of the least important factors in the engine's character and power output.

Have you seen Motus motorcycles?
http://motusmotorcycles.com



Yup, that's a pushrod engine all right. Imagine that!



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Engines aside, I agree with Bobob. The Fat Bob, or another Dyna, would have been a much more accurate comparo. The Breakout is for cruisin' low n slow. The Dynas are the most nimble of the HD big twins.
My head says go with the Gunner, but my eyes say go with the FXSB. That is (IMHO) the hottest looking cruiser on the market. I would love to have one for putting around town. I have the XC for distance and comfort, and handling. This would be just a pretty toy, and I can live with that. When I pay off my XC in 1.5 years, I may be looking into a stablemate, and this is on the top of my list
 

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HC: I'm sure glad we have you around to explain this engineering stuff to us in a way we can understand.

Luvmyride: I'm happy to say I think the HD's are finally starting to get better. Nothing wrong with an HD as long as one understands its limitations eh. With some exceptions; the Twin Cam's are good for at least 60k miles until they get iffy. With some motor work that can be extended out to 100k+
 
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