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RB, I can understand the low mile ride you make daily but what I don't understand is Amsoil's lack of ability to keep your motor operating in the safety zone. Considering this is the best oil out there and is supposed to do everything better than the competition than why not just stick with it and maybe change your riding habits and or distance. Maybe your running to rich?

I understand that many use it. I don't know anything about Shell Rotella oils other than that's what all my Diesel truck buddies have run in their trucks. I just would never put anything in my $20k motorcycle other than MC specified oil jaso ma or ma2.

Don't want to beat this to death as I'm sure you gonna do what you want. I tend to over analyze things before I do them. I was a Royal purple guy till the price went up $5 a quart in my area so I can relate to making decisions that include $$$$$$$. Good luck. Love to hear the outcome with the Shell oil.
 

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So where did you send it and how much and what do you put it in. I'm thinking I might do this at my next change. I've been running Vic oil and changing every 5k miles on the odo since the 2nd oil change. First change was done at ~ 1.5k miles.

Have you seen any of these test results from someone using Vic oil yet? If so, and you can remember who, then point me that way and I'll save my money. TIA.
I been getting my test kits from Bob (forum Amsoil dealer), around $25 or so, paid up front and includes paid return postage. The lab is Oil Analyzers, despite what some may say, they do not favor Amsoil...at least that's my opinion since they told me I needed to change the oil WAY before I should have based on Amsoil's recommended mileage. I also have a test kit for my next sample from Blackstone labs, they'll send you the kit for free and when you send in your sample, you send in your payment which is about the same price as the other.

If you'd like to look at other lab results from various oils from both companies on only Vic bikes. Try this link. Click "browse albums", 3rd section from the bottom, middle column, titled "victech oilanalysesothers * 16" also the album directly to the right of this one has a bunch of lab results in it from the page creator.

http://www.roadkillonline.net/cgi-bin/vpmain.cgi
 

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RB, I can understand the low mile ride you make daily but what I don't understand is Amsoil's lack of ability to keep your motor operating in the safety zone. Considering this is the best oil out there and is supposed to do everything better than the competition than why not just stick with it and maybe change your riding habits and or distance. Maybe your running to rich?

I understand that many use it. I don't know anything about Shell Rotella oils other than that's what all my Diesel truck buddies have run in their trucks. I just would never put anything in my $20k motorcycle other than MC specified oil jaso ma or ma2.

Don't want to beat this to death as I'm sure you gonna do what you want. I tend to over analyze things before I do them. I was a Royal purple guy till the price went up $5 a quart in my area so I can relate to making decisions that include $$$$$$$. Good luck. Love to hear the outcome with the Shell oil.

It's not the oil, you could put any oil you can think of in there and it would yield the same results. I lab tested Vic first then Amsoil. The problem is not the oil, it's the short commute. It's not running rich, I've taken lab results to the dealer to look for possible issues. The bike is tip top. It was when I read through all the lab results posted in the link I gave to SB above when the light bulb went off. When starting the bike up initially, it will run richer at first until it has warmed up. Being that I only live 9 miles from my work place and I ride every single day, that means my bike is just getting warmed up by the time I get to work. Fuel in the oil on these Vics seems to be pretty common (see lab results in said link). When that fuel reaches the oil it's contaminated once it reaches a certain percentage...I believe it's 2% or greater. At that point the viscosity starts to break down. You can actually boil that fuel off by taking the bike on a long ride and the heat will burn off that fuel but that leaves oxidation. My first lab test showed the viscosity breaking down because of the fuel, my second lab test showed that I did burn the fuel out but the oxidation levels were too high. Regardless of the oil used, this will occur. It's the nature of the beast. Changing my riding habits is not really an option. I have to ride that bike into work every day. I guess I don't have too, I can take my truck but it's not going to happen :D I have withdraws if I don't get seat time daily. It's just the way it is. If I lived 30 miles from work then all this would be a non issue because the bike and oil would be able to reach operating temperature and remain there for 20 min or so and eliminate fuel contamination and I'd be able to use the "good" oils like they're meant to be used. But since I live so close, I'm just wasting the oil because it's contaminated so quickly. It's all about the engine and oil temperature vs time. Low temp + low time (short commute) = fuel contamination. Normal temp + 30 min or more = no fuel contamination.
 

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It's not the oil, you could put any oil you can think of in there and it would yield the same results. I lab tested Vic first then Amsoil. The problem is not the oil, it's the short commute. It's not running rich, I've taken lab results to the dealer to look for possible issues. The bike is tip top. It was when I read through all the lab results posted in the link I gave to SB above when the light bulb went off. When starting the bike up initially, it will run richer at first until it has warmed up. Being that I only live 9 miles from my work place and I ride every single day, that means my bike is just getting warmed up by the time I get to work. Fuel in the oil on these Vics seems to be pretty common (see lab results in said link). When that fuel reaches the oil it's contaminated once it reaches a certain percentage...I believe it's 2% or greater. At that point the viscosity starts to break down. You can actually boil that fuel off by taking the bike on a long ride and the heat will burn off that fuel but that leaves oxidation. My first lab test showed the viscosity breaking down because of the fuel, my second lab test showed that I did burn the fuel out but the oxidation levels were too high. Regardless of the oil used, this will occur. It's the nature of the beast. Changing my riding habits is not really an option. I have to ride that bike into work every day. I guess I don't have too, I can take my truck but it's not going to happen :D I have withdraws if I don't get seat time daily. It's just the way it is. If I lived 30 miles from work then all this would be a non issue because the bike and oil would be able to reach operating temperature and remain there for 20 min or so and eliminate fuel contamination and I'd be able to use the "good" oils like they're meant to be used. But since I live so close, I'm just wasting the oil because it's contaminated so quickly. It's all about the engine and oil temperature vs time. Low temp + low time (short commute) = fuel contamination. Normal temp + 30 min or more = no fuel contamination.
Just get up earlier and take a longer roundabout way to work .. :)
 

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I been getting my test kits from Bob (forum Amsoil dealer), around $25 or so, paid up front and includes paid return postage. The lab is Oil Analyzers, despite what some may say, they do not favor Amsoil...at least that's my opinion since they told me I needed to change the oil WAY before I should have based on Amsoil's recommended mileage. I also have a test kit for my next sample from Blackstone labs, they'll send you the kit for free and when you send in your sample, you send in your payment which is about the same price as the other.

If you'd like to look at other lab results from various oils from both companies on only Vic bikes. Try this link. Click "browse albums", 3rd section from the bottom, middle column, titled "victech oilanalysesothers * 16" also the album directly to the right of this one has a bunch of lab results in it from the page creator.

http://www.roadkillonline.net/cgi-bin/vpmain.cgi
Thanks Rebel. I think I'll use Blackstone just to avoid the potential conflict of interest thing. I also like that they have a column showing universal avgs of various components rather than just tell you if it's normal or not. Then again, I like the fact that Oil Analyzers tell you if you are too far from said universal avgs. I guess since I know the universal avgs from the Blackstone sheet, it'd be smarter to use the Oil Analyzers...decisions, decisions.

One thing I noticed from the Vic oil tested was that everyone was changing their oil every 1-2k miles. I don't change my underwear that frequently! I think it's definitely worthwhile to see how some oil with 5k on it (per Vic recommendations) stacks up.

Another thing. I think the high fuel level in your first reading was likely due to the bike breaking in. During that process, the rings are getting seated so to speak and may not provide an optimal barrier. With all due respect to the analyzers, once that mating process is complete, I don't understand why a short trip would result in an abundance of fuel slipping past them. I think the fact that your second test resulted in this parameter falling back into normal category kinda supports my supposition.

According to this guy:

http://www.midtownoil.com/downloads/What Is Oxidation In Lubricating Oil.pdf

"The rate at which base oil molecules react with oxygen depends on a number of factors. Perhaps the most critical is temperature. Like many chemical reactions, oxidation rates increase exponentially with increasing temperature due to the Arrehenius rate rule. For most mineral oils, a general rule of thumb is that the rate of oxidation doubles for every 10°C (18°F) rise in temperature above 75°C (165°F).

Because of this, synthetic oils are often required in high temperature applications to prevent rapid oil oxidation. But why are synthetic hydrocarbon oils (SHCs) more oxidatively stable than conventional minerals oils? After all, they’re both comprised
of carbon and hydrogen atoms joined together in similar paraffinic chains to refined mineral oils.

The answer to this question is two-fold. First, SHCs, and for that matter highly refined mineral oils, have very few impurities. Some of the impurities, particularly aromatic compounds found in solvent refined mineral oils, are less stable than the paraffinic molecules that comprise the majority of molecules in SHCs and highly refined
mineral oils."

So to me it sounds like heat and age are your likely oxidation culprits. And since those variables likely changed between your test samples and you didn't have that issue with the first sample, I'll go out on a limb here and guess that the problem could be the difference in the oil used.

According to the same article, the analyzers use a spectroscopy to look for Carbonyl groups (most noteworthy carboxylic acids). It could well be that Vic simply has a better additive package to neutralize such things.

Lastly, once I get the results, how do I go about getting them uploaded to your linked site. I think that's great to have them all in one place like that, though it'd be nice if it wasn't such a maze to get to it.
 

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Another thing. I think the high fuel level in your first reading was likely due to the bike breaking in. During that process, the rings are getting seated so to speak and may not provide an optimal barrier. With all due respect to the analyzers, once that mating process is complete, I don't understand why a short trip would result in an abundance of fuel slipping past them. I think the fact that your second test resulted in this parameter falling back into normal category kinda supports my supposition.
I thought that very thing. Until I went through those lab results. Oil Analyzers comments on the results for my oil were off. They said look for a fuel leak. It's was a brand new bike, rings weren't seated yet...surely there would be fuel and metal in the oil right? So I didn't give them much weight on the comments. However, a came across a few results from Blackstone with high fuel and the comments showed much more experience in my opinion. There were bikes that were broke in with high fuel in the oil. Blackstone said it was likely from short commutes. (a light bulb light up) I don't recall if it was the same result or another one but the comment said that if there are frequent short commutes, to run the bike until it's good and hot so the fuel burns off before taking a sample. Went on further to say that while the fuel may be boiled out, it results in oxidization. (a large light bulb light up) That's both my samples explained. I do have Amsoil in the bike now. I changed it after that last sample and I do have another sample in my garage already paid for so I could do one more just to confirm that it's the short commutes.

You are right about the age and temp though. The first sample was taken after all winter miles. Meaning short commutes to and from work and not much on the weekends since it was cold. There was about 7 months on that oil. The second test using the Amsoil there was about 5 months on that oil. It included several weekend rides ranging from 100-500 miles. But that also puts weight behind Blackstone's claim...

Lastly, once I get the results, how do I go about getting them uploaded to your linked site. I think that's great to have them all in one place like that, though it'd be nice if it wasn't such a maze to get to it.
There is a forum member that goes by Roadkill, doesn't look like he's on here much but he posted on my Amsoil analysis thread. That site belongs to him. Send your results to him as an attachment and he'll post them on the site. [email protected]
 

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There is a forum member that goes by Roadkill, doesn't look like he's on here much but he posted on my Amsoil analysis thread. That site belongs to him. Send your results to him as an attachment and he'll post them on the site. [email protected]
Will do. thumb up
 

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questionable testing!!

IMO any test results from an engine not properly broken in or overworn is meaningless, my 13 hammer has taken a qt in a thousand with about 1700 on the clock now. being preowned for 8xx miles i do not know how the original owner rode, everything i read says you gotta wind a big v-twin to produce enough heat to seat the rings on iron lined cylinders. not sure how our coated aluminum cylinders effect break-in. i am still rinning the vic 500 mile oil change from former owner at the dealer plus a qt of 10-40 group III dino "synthetic", i will switch to amsoil at end of pa's riding season, soon for me. amsoil has a very HI TBN addative package and i would feel better using it in a $$$ engine, i intend to keep the hammer and want it to LAST, a few $$$ for the best oil with all its benefits means little to me
 

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IMO any test results from an engine not properly broken in or overworn is meaningless, my 13 hammer has taken a qt in a thousand with about 1700 on the clock now. being preowned for 8xx miles i do not know how the original owner rode, everything i read says you gotta wind a big v-twin to produce enough heat to seat the rings on iron lined cylinders. not sure how our coated aluminum cylinders effect break-in. i am still rinning the vic 500 mile oil change from former owner at the dealer plus a qt of 10-40 group III dino "synthetic", i will switch to amsoil at end of pa's riding season, soon for me. amsoil has a very HI TBN addative package and i would feel better using it in a $$$ engine, i intend to keep the hammer and want it to LAST, a few $$$ for the best oil with all its benefits means little to me
Amen. Don't forget the benefit of a smoother motor and shifting that clunky gearbox we have. Love premium synthetic oils. They have always proven themselves and I could care less about a few extra bucks as well. I will post after 500 miles on Amsoil and take advantage of the blackstone testing when we hit 5k. For now I'm out. Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #70 ·
Just to keep things straight, The oil analysis is done by Polaris Labs which is one of the, if not the, top testing facilities in the US and Canada. It is private labeled Oil Analyzers Inc. Although AMSOIL is very capable of in house testing, few analysis' are done in house.

Short trips can be murder on any oil but, bear in mind that the lesser the oil, also the lesser the drain interval. I always let my bikes come up in temp before riding. Engines are designed to run at operating temp, roughly 212 degrees, not at 100 or whatever. Nothing, especially the pistons and rings are expanded enough to do their respective jobs and it increases engine wear.

If you noticed smoother shifting, and you will with AMSOIL, you should realize that there are benefits which you cannot see or feel. The added protection of the "Over The Top" additive packages used will help protect from some of the problems you may have.

If you want to run a full synthetic, none of the Rotella oils are, we can set you into one of our other oils at a lesser price and supply a WIX filter for you. The oil I am recommending for that is NOT capable of extended drain intervals.
 

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Thanks for replying Bob. I sent you an e-mail for info on the other oil.
 

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Bob, need your help. Many are using 20/50 in their victorys with no real complaints. Stating a much smoother drive train and improvement in shifting and noise levels compared to even the 10/40 amsoil.

Question is, do you recommend using the 20/50 in hotter climates such as florida ?

I can see recommending they stick with 10/40 in cooler climates but it is very hot and humid down here 9 months out of the year. I would like to use 20/50 if you feel im safe with it. My vic is not a daily commuter and sees mostly steady rpms. I always let it warm up and idle a while before taking off when cold. Please help clear this up in my mind as well as i'm sure others have wondered the same .
 

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10-40 + 20-50

i did my 2,000 mile change on my 13 hammer, mixed 20-50 + 10-40 amsoils, did a ride or two before i tucked the hammie in and noticed better shifting immediately. IMO this is a good blend for riding in PA. when the weather is decent! can't wait for spring time!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #76 ·
i did my 2,000 mile change on my 13 hammer, mixed 20-50 + 10-40 amsoils, did a ride or two before i tucked the hammie in and noticed better shifting immediately. IMO this is a good blend for riding in PA. when the weather is decent! can't wait for spring time!!!!
To all who read this... This is NOT recommended and you will have ZERO warranty if there is a problem. You will be taking full liability if there are any issues.

The recommended oil for a Vic from AMSOIL is 10W-40.

It is NOT recommended to blend our oils due to proprietary formulations.
 

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To all who read this... This is NOT recommended and you will have ZERO warranty if there is a problem. You will be taking full liability if there are any issues.

The recommended oil for a Vic from AMSOIL is 10W-40.

It is NOT recommended to blend our oils due to proprietary formulations.
Exactly- Never mix expensive snake oil with the good stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter · #78 ·
Exactly- Never mix expensive snake oil with the good stuff.
I am trying real hard to keep from arguing with people that really don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

So, if you would like to ask a question based on my 30 years in business, please feel free. Otherwise, please also feel free to hold your asinine comments
 

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Discussion Starter · #79 ·
Bob, need your help. Many are using 20/50 in their victorys with no real complaints. Stating a much smoother drive train and improvement in shifting and noise levels compared to even the 10/40 amsoil.

Question is, do you recommend using the 20/50 in hotter climates such as florida ?

I can see recommending they stick with 10/40 in cooler climates but it is very hot and humid down here 9 months out of the year. I would like to use 20/50 if you feel im safe with it. My vic is not a daily commuter and sees mostly steady rpms. I always let it warm up and idle a while before taking off when cold. Please help clear this up in my mind as well as i'm sure others have wondered the same .
The Vic engine is designed to run on a 40 weight oil. Although there may be reduced gear noise, there is no benefit other than to the ears. Use of a higher viscosity oil than necessary will cause unnecessary wear at cold start, less HP, less fuel mileage and usually will cause a hotter running engine.

That being said, my statement is about using Premium Synthetic oils such as AMSOIL or Mobil 1 Racing 4T where the 10W-40 is all that is needed in ALL temps. Use of 20W-50 oils will require extended warm up periods and should only be used in ambient temps above 95 degrees and where extended high speed driving will be encountered.
 

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The Vic engine is designed to run on a 40 weight oil. Although there may be reduced gear noise, there is no benefit other than to the ears. Use of a higher viscosity oil than necessary will cause unnecessary wear at cold start, less HP, less fuel mileage and usually will cause a hotter running engine.

That being said, my statement is about using Premium Synthetic oils such as AMSOIL or Mobil 1 Racing 4T where the 10W-40 is all that is needed in ALL temps. Use of 20W-50 oils will require extended warm up periods and should only be used in ambient temps above 95 degrees and where extended high speed driving will be encountered.
Thank you. I knew the answer but wanted to post on this forum for others that may have had the same question. If Victory designed their motors to run on a 50 wt oil then I guess they would have developed a 50 wt oil or a 18w47 oil. :ltr:

Then again we all know why they developed the weight they did. My 10/40 is working out just fine. Now I'm looking forward to my octane booster. cheers
 
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