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How do you tell someone that they have been given bad/wrong/incorrect information?

I know that this isn't a Harley forum but tonight was the second time in two weeks that someone riding a new HD 103 has said that his bike was making 100 HP & 100 torque at the rear wheel! The first guy said that his salesman told him that but this second guy said that he had to look it up on the internet. For a minute there I felt like I was in an Allstate TV commercial :ltr:

Most of us who know anything about engines knows that is VERY incorrect but how to you tell a guy that just bought his bike and is SO proud of it that he has been lied to by either sales people or the internet?

My only comment was that they might want to put it on a dyno to see if that is accurate. To my knowledge, most 103's put down less than 80HP to the rear tire when run on a Dyno. I wonder who is spewing mis-information on HD power ratings on the internet these days
 

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According to the World Wide Web, the 103 Harley motor gets close to 80 horse and 90 in the torque dept


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No win situation. I'd say "wow, impressive" and look for a way to change the subject.
 

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100 torque is what Harley claims on their website for the 103 bikes, but that's definitely not rear wheel. The guy you spoke too was probably just uninformed between crank versus rear wheel numbers. Harley doesn't publish the HP numbers, probably because they are so low and would be kind of embarrassing.
 

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Hey, I am riding a HD 103 and no way is it putting out that kind of power. My Yamaha 1300 cc 4 cylinder was rated at 97 HP stock and put out way more power than the relatively sickly 103 I am riding, until my Vision comes in. I have a stage 1 air filter on mine and maybe it gave me 1 or 2 HP but no more. It did give me something far more important and that was a bit of space between that hot engine and my right leg. That stage 1 filter runs far cooler than the original filter did. I think you will find that HD only advertises about 75 HP on the stock 103, which is far better than the 68 they claimed on the older 96. I fully support that idea. My 2011 RGU 103 is far stronger than the 96 I had on my 2010 EGU.
Actually HD does publish their engine HP but it is not what we would consider very strong compared to the Vics. Go here for some sad but true numbers. http://www.hdforums.com/forum/dyna-glide-models/731007-103-stock-motor-dyno-results.html

ndabunka, tell it like it is. Someone has been spinning lies to impress your friend. No way is a HD stock engine going to produce over 75 HP at the rear wheel.
 

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No need to correct him.......just ask him if he wants to race!!


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Buddy of mine has a 12' street glide 103 with dual pipes and new flash and was dynoed at about 80 hp 85 or so torque. Hes a huge Harley guy and tossed those papers asap. I smoke him every time were side by side, stock and after pipes. Those street glides are heavy but are a sweet looking ride.
 

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No need to correct him.......just ask him if he wants to race!!


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Yep. You want to make a little side money on a barroom pool table, look for the guy with his own stick.
You want to show nothing but taillight to some proud owner, look for the guy that quotes what a salesman told him and then verified it on the interwebs.

You do the poor SOB a favor pointing out the truth to him.
 

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You don't especially over time you get used to allot of Harley owners trying to compare dicks so to speak. Just nod smile and tell him or her that yeah they are nice bikes yada yada. Wait until the next time you see them and see if anything has changed. Allot of guys in the my club talked crapped the first time they saw my bike. However within a month or two everything changed. We rode and they researched and now it is nothing but compliments and questions.
 

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You don't have to tell your mate anything. No point in pissing on his chips. So long as he's happy with the bike.

Do you ever reflect on the distinction between what something is and what it means? Using Harley as an example, some folk will buy their bike and love it because it's 'American Iron' blah blah blah. Soaking up all the marketing guff and the image they like to feel it reflects upon them. It's all bullshit. What the bike 'is' is a collection of parts sourced as economically as possible from wherever they can be sourced and put together sufficiently well to maintain the brand.

I always enjoyed my Harleys. Had loads of them. Always hoped I didn't buy them for any reason other than what they were but maybe I did. I must've done I suppose or I'd have bought a Yamaha.... :ltr:
 

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The real Harley guys know that they are crap, but still buy them cause of the crowd you get into. I have a friend and he won't own anything else, but he don't bad mouth my 99 at all. It ain't as powerful as lots of the newer Vic's, but it still will out run a 2004 Fat Boy.. Now I will say I really like some of them HD's, Street Glides, Heritage Softails, and kinda starting to like the Road Glide's.


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Now I will say I really like some of them HD's, Street Glides, Heritage Softails, and kinda starting to like the Road Glide's.
I really like the Road King. With sufficient mods it looks like it could be a super nice machine, but with the cranks coming unglued and the cam tensioners launching shrapnel into the engines at indeterminate intervals, I think I'll stick with the Vic. Besides, it doesn't vibrate so irritatingly at idle.
 

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but with the cranks coming unglued and the cam tensioners launching shrapnel into the engines at indeterminate intervals, I think I'll stick with the Vic. Besides, it doesn't vibrate so irritatingly at idle.
I wish I could say that, the old 99 hammer motors vibrate a bunch at idle. I am in the process of gathering enough money to put a newer V92 Freedom in it. That will make a huge difference. Hope to get it and all of the parts for it this summer and install it over the winter. Than I will be set for a good long while...
 

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You don't. Let the buyer beware... ;)
 

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How do you tell someone that they have been given bad/wrong/incorrect information?

I know that this isn't a Harley forum but tonight was the second time in two weeks that someone riding a new HD 103 has said that his bike was making 100 HP & 100 torque at the rear wheel! The first guy said that his salesman told him that but this second guy said that he had to look it up on the internet. For a minute there I felt like I was in an Allstate TV commercial :ltr:

Most of us who know anything about engines knows that is VERY incorrect but how to you tell a guy that just bought his bike and is SO proud of it that he has been lied to by either sales people or the internet?

My only comment was that they might want to put it on a dyno to see if that is accurate. To my knowledge, most 103's put down less than 80HP to the rear tire when run on a Dyno. I wonder who is spewing mis-information on HD power ratings on the internet these days
I tend to be a little more subtle...

I would have responded by telling him that my bike has 120+hp, and when he called BS on me, I would have responded "Well, youre adding 20 extra HP to your figures, so I figured I would just do the same..." Then I would explain to him that he has been lied to, and his HD 103 is lucky if its making 80HP and 90ftlbs.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I tend to be a little more subtle...

I would have responded by telling him that my bike has 120+hp, and when he called BS on me, I would have responded "Well, youre adding 20 extra HP to your figures, so I figured I would just do the same..." Then I would explain to him that he has been lied to, and his HD 103 is lucky if its making 80HP and 90ftlbs.
Just for clarification. This latest guy was/is the guy who runs the biggest bike night in this area and he's a nice guy who simply didn't know so he looked it up on the internet. I wouldn't want to call him on on Lier's Poker or anything. I was just seeking a "gentle" way of letting these guys know that they may have been a bit (or extremely) mis-led. In his defense, he was coming from a Honda and had not yet put his bike on a Dyno. I think he got the idea and I tried to be as basic as possible when I said that should not be too disappointed if it only came in @ 80HP (knowing full well, it will likely be under 70HP).
 

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You could be nice and say something like; don't we wish! Include your bike into the equation and finish by saying; our bikes put out around 85 hp/tq. You don't need to let him know your Johnson is bigger than his and faster to boot. If you ever run side by side and let 'er rip; he will find out then.

I had a guy on a 95 Evo Softail try to tell me his bike was putting out 200 hp. I just said it wasn't possible but he was convinced and said he paid a lot extra for the machine work on the heads and that it made all the difference. I could see there was no way he was going to believe anything other than what he thought he heard the dyno operator say so I just let it go. I got the feeling the other people listening to the conversation were hoping I would just let it go by the way they started fidgeting so I did. I figure the old guy can live in his fantasy land and be happy. It doesn't affect me either way.
 

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I often wonder where this nonsense evolved from. And it's not as if the Harley twins have been top-dog power wise in the last 50 years or so anyway. Metric I-twins, I-4s, triples, V-4s have always made better power. When the metric V-twins started picking up in the 80s, Harley was so worried that they'd be driven under by the more advanced, more powerful motors being produced by Kawasaki and Honda that the government actually punished importers with the big bike tariff.

and I'm not sure, but I'd bet good money that the 700cc Shadows and Vulcans were making power on par with the 80 CI Harleys of the day. I know for a fact that the Vulcan VN700 made 60 HP and 47 ft-lbs (at the crank, according to the service manual) from a liquid-cooled, dual-carb, twin-cam V-twin. Hell, mine was old and tired and it felt just as snappy as the much newer (and admittedly infinitely more reliable) VN900 I owned directly after. Can't say what they were making at the rear wheel...not a lot of guys were trying to make them faster and I've never seen any dyno numbers. (side note: the 900 made better torque and was more comfortable and in general, more rideable)

Harleys have a strong cool factor, I'll admit. Especially in recent years, they are some truly beautiful bikes. The chrome and paint just look bottomless, and the fit and finish is unparalleled. But pure performance? Seems like Harley has always been pretty far behind the curve in modern history.
 
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