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I just got my latest cycle world magazine in the mail and on the back is an Indian ad poking at HD that has a guy with an old leather jacket with an Indian logo on the back on top of the outline of the HD logo. The ad say "choice is coming to American motorcycles". I guess it is the way I read it but I feel there has been a choice for 15 years now and that is a Victory. I know it is advertisement hype to get HD riders over to Polaris's new venture but it seems Polaris is putting down its own product since it is also a choice in American made motorcycles.
 

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everyone I meet thinks vic is a metric bike, maybe Polaris does too?
 

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They way I see it the Indian name and brand is a direct threat to HD more than Victory. It's that heritage that Indian can target and Victory cannot being so new.
 

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Well, Vic is a metric bike.

Probably 75% of the riders on this board trace their history to asian rim products. There are some euro riders too, most of those in the sport tourer camp. Vic are predominantly metric hardware fitted. So calling a Vic a metric is appropriate.

Shades of grey though. It's not black and white. Vic is an American motorcycle with (taking the MoCo's 110 year uninterrupted history out of the equation) a long history of American motorcycle manufacture.

Vic provides models that are clear marketplace alternatives to Harley offerings. Vic has attracted away a small percentage of Harley riders through it's media efforts, but more importantly through the machines delivery of the goods. The type of western hemisphere rider that straddles the fence about bike brands, being more quality/value oriented also has discovered Vic. It is appropriate to label Vic an American motorcycle.

Indian brings history to the table. No one has leaked the type of hardware the new Indians will sport. I guess a combination of SAE and metric, but my heart wants SAE only. That detail would state, without reservation (that's an Indian pun folks) that Indian is an American product. The thinking then would be here is an American bike steeped in the history of the industrial revolution of the US and back for another head to head with the Milwaukee evil empire. If you like adventure touring, sport touring, hell touring touring, pass ye by this monster because it's not here to fulfill your vacation checklist. You like offshore, get you some. There's plenty of that, just not here.
This is Indian. It's not here to offer alternatives or provide a recognizable transition from the familiar offshore mechanics. It's here to remind Americans of who we are, what we came from and it's here to take the food out of little Harley execs babies mouths.
 

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I guess a combination of SAE and metric, but my heart wants SAE only.
The only place on my person that the size of a bolt head affects is my wallet. I've acquired a lot of metric tools over the years and would hate to have to buy a bunch of new stuff because they no longer fit the fasteners.

Being that most people don't ride enough that it makes much difference, this may not be a consideration. But with the rest of the world metric, it would seem to me that forcing them to retool for a recreational vehicle would not be in the best interests of their global sales dept.

My local dealer has been selling KTMs for years, but up until recently it was only the dirt bikes. KTM was forcing its street bike dealers to invest ~$25k in specialized service tools. With the rather limited market, my dealer just didn't feel it was worth the investment.
 

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I doubt that the new Indian will have much SAE but not for the dealers sake or the end users sake. Manufacturing tooling in Polaris house is metrified and that's the big nut.

The Indian has a new engine/ trannie design and I expect new frame design and with that will come specialty tools of whatever dimensioning. Those costs will be borne by dealers regardless and to whatever extent we fancy ourselves wrenches by us.

Pop just gets all nostalgic for the Harley / Indian wars but this is the age of milquetoast mass production and we have pretty much surrendered our manufacturing pride to the rest of the worlds expectations so what's a few millimeters among friends.
 

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Pop just gets all nostalgic for the Harley / Indian wars but this is the age of milquetoast mass production and we have pretty much surrendered our manufacturing pride to the rest of the worlds expectations so what's a few millimeters among friends.
I'm no fan of surrendering our manufacturing base, but I kinda appreciate some degree of standardization.

I read an article once where the author gave a historical account of all the different methods motorcycle makers have used to implement their controls i.e. throttle, shifter, brakes, signals etc.

While I'm sure it's endearing to some folks, I know it irritates me to no small degree just to get used to BMW's turn signals whenever I ride them. I like their bikes and have ridden them enough now (rentals) that that alone probably wouldn't stop me from owning one, but when I first demo'd one it was a major turn off. Blowing a first impression can often be costly...
 

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i still do not understand the metric label victory is 86 % American supplied and built while HD is only 46 % so where's the standard,
 

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indain advertisment

I left a reply a little short as to the metric label Polaris is trying to create a market that hits a lot broader band to customers and something most have grown up hearing about, while victory is relatively new yet it's a hard slow mountain to climb with a new product in an old market, victory is growing and will be justified as it earn it's reputation, mean while the indian brand will bring over and inlarge it market share. as far as metric is labeled you will be hard pressed to find any bike that doesn't carry that cap including HD.
 

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The Indian brand has a heritage in the United States and a long standing competition with Harley. It was the first real motorcycle to be made here, prior to Harley. Victory has only been around 15 years so has little name recognition or heritage and the bikes are so different in looks from Harley that I don't think they are real competitors. Sure, some Harley rider buy Vics (like myself), but the dent in Harley sales by Victory is nominal. With the Indian brand, Polaris is competing directly with Harley by bringing back an American icon that is still in the hearts of many Americans.
 

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Isn't it now a federal and SAE standard that all vehicles are produced to metric measurements?
Speaking of fasteners, didja hear about the hardware store owner turned newspaper journalist who reported a story about an asylum inmate that escaped, went to a laundry, raped a couple employees there and disappeared? He captioned it...Nut Screws Washers and Bolts. Ta Da Boom!
 

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i still do not understand the metric label victory is 86 % American supplied and built while HD is only 46 % so where's the standard,
They don't know where to put the Victory.
You have the Harley market and the customs fall under that categories cause the use the same style V motors as Harley.
They don't know where to put Victory so we will be in our owen class. The only reason we might be metric is cause all the bolts are that way.
Yes Harley has a lot of metric bolts.
Think of this if Indian would of won the army contract it would be the other way around Polaris would of bought Harley
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I've been doing my own wrenching for most of my life and my last 3 chevy trucks have all used metric bolts along with with every other kind of crazy bolt out there (torx, hex, etc.) My tool box is full of metric tools and a small corner of one of the drawers house my few sae sockets and wrenches, most I have bought to wrench on my J Deere.
 

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I just got my latest cycle world magazine in the mail and on the back is an Indian ad poking at HD that has a guy with an old leather jacket with an Indian logo on the back on top of the outline of the HD logo. The ad say "choice is coming to American motorcycles". I guess it is the way I read it but I feel there has been a choice for 15 years now and that is a Victory. I know it is advertisement hype to get HD riders over to Polaris's new venture but it seems Polaris is putting down its own product since it is also a choice in American made motorcycles.
As you pointed out, the Victory bikes have been a GREAT alternative but for a number of reasons, the marketing reach seems limited. It's limited by...false pre-conceptions & mis-understandings of what the bikes are (or are NOT). Many still think that these are made in Japan. Others only know of the Vision when you mention Victory and they say "I don't want a space ship". Others resist anything that is not Harley but Indian HAS heritage and if they do as good a job on the chassis as well as they have already done on the engine, then Harley is going to be loosing a LOT of client's. The #1 reason that many will be changing is the same reason that many have come to Victory and that is RELIABILITY. Long time HD owners have literally gotten VERY tired of the "breakdown machine(s)" in their garage but many/most have NO IDEA that Victory's are SO much more reliable. The rest simply want a more classic look and have stayed away from Victory because our look is "too modern". A classic look in a reliable bike could well take a HUGE chunk out of HD's current business.
 

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a guy I ride with that has a street glide has already said he will be buying one of the Indians IF they put in a local dealer. he said if they sell them through vic dealers he might buy one, but the closest vic dealer is still over an hour away one way. he said if he has to go all the way to charlotte forget it.
 

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a guy I ride with that has a street glide has already said he will be buying one of the Indians IF they put in a local dealer. he said if they sell them through vic dealers he might buy one, but the closest vic dealer is still over an hour away one way. he said if he has to go all the way to charlotte forget it.
They are trying to find a businessman willing to put a dealership in Asheville, NC. Would that be closer?
 

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Even Harley is a mix of metric and SAE sizes, but the most common body parts bolts they use are torx. Forget the metric designation, it is very dated, although HD riders will still say it when they mean foreign assembled bikes. Victory and HD are both not metric using the HD owner definition.
 

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Victory bike aren't metric, they aren't SAE, they are ALLEN! Seems you get by with a set of allen wrenches and just a few others.
 

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Allen wrenches are available in both SAE and metric sizes... If it uses metric sized Allen wrenches, then it's metric lol


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