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That was good viewing.....now I want to see Indian vs Vic. I've made up my mind (2015 Vintage), but still would like to see what the reviewers say.
 

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The heritage has a soft spot in my heart as the quintessential classic. It was my first bike. A 1990 Evo era I picked up in 2001. Loved the bike but she leaked and had substandard power. That said though, compared to even my high-ball the FL softails feel small. They just don't fit me like the Vic and I imagine the Indian also is simply a larger bike.

Also I'm indoctrinated now. I find the right hand drive of the Polaris drivetrain superior. I know what it's like to deal with Harley primary woes and less we forget the three independent fluid reservoirs, chain primary, crazy old sprocket behind the primary etc etc.

I vote Indian. Better suspension. Better drivetrain. Better value. Higher end styling, bags, engineering, finish and power.


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Basically, the Indian kicked the HD's ass. Yeah, they dance around it and give the more compact HD the nod for better parking lot manners (duh, right?), but if you read between the lines, it becomes obvious they are reaching for nice things to say about the HD while being VERY careful not to piss off the MoCo.

I love reading the comments "Seems the HD is better for a beginning rider and the Indian better for a more experienced rider". Hey, peckerhead, what beginning rider goes out and buys a $20,000 motorcycle? Neither of these motorcycles is targeting the beginning rider as their market. These are not "starter bikes".
 

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Yeah it does appear their reviews are pretty dang fluffy as if they're on H-D's payroll. Haven't been impressed by that guy's reviews much at all on any bikes. "Yeah Dude, it's a cool bike.. I dig it.."

Makes me want to become a bike reviewer..

How's a guy bust into that gig? Riding different bikes then pontificating about them for a living. Sign my ass up! cheers I could become the Anthony Bourdain of bike reviewers compared to these guys. LOL!!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yeah it does appear their reviews are pretty dang fluffy as if they're on H-D's payroll. Haven't been impressed by that guy's reviews much at all on any bikes. "Yeah Dude, it's a cool bike.. I dig it.."
Cut the guy some slack. His name is Brian HARLEY afterall. :ltr:
 

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Both are awesome. Of course, I'd take the Indian.

Which Vic would be of the same class? Boardwalk? Thinking whitewalls w/spoke wheels.
 

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I was actually surprised at how little power the Indian made in the comparison. I know that it makes more power than the Harley but bragging about making more power than Harley is like bragging about being the smartest kid in the special education class.

For comparison, compare the Indian 111 to the Yamaha 113. Both are big, long stroke, push rod V-twins with similar displacements. Using the dyno results from motorcycleusa.com you get the following:

Indian 111
73 HP @ 4500 rpm, 101 ft-lbs @ 2700 rpm

Yamaha 113
87 HP @ 4400 rpm, 111 ft-lbs @ 2300 rpm

I don't know. I guess I was expecting to see something closer to 80+ HP and 110 Ft-lbs of torque out of a modern 111 cubic inch twin.
 

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I was actually surprised at how little power the Indian made in the comparison. I know that it makes more power than the Harley but bragging about making more power than Harley is like bragging about being the smartest kid in the special education class.
Exactly. Not much to brag about.

Indian 111
73 HP @ 4500 rpm, 101 ft-lbs @ 2700 rpm
Yamaha 113
87 HP @ 4400 rpm, 111 ft-lbs @ 2300 rpm

I don't know. I guess I was expecting to see something closer to 80+ HP and 110 Ft-lbs of torque out of a modern 111 cubic inch twin.
Yeah... the Indian is a 2 valve motor. The valve arrangement looks like a freakin' Briggs & Stratton. The Yamaha, on the other hand, is 4 valve so it naturally breathes better.

There's one other factor that is undeniable... it matters... The Yamaha is Japanese, the Indian and HD are American Icons. In this country, even if the Yamaha made sandwiches and did dishes it would still be a 'lesser' motorcycle in the eyes of the American consumer. Hell, American consumers STILL look at Victory as a "metric" and classify them right in there with a Japanese bike. "It'll never be a Harley", right? Indian will out-sell Victory in their second year. Why? Simple, it's a household American name. Period.

The Indian engine is built to make strong grunt on the bottom end and that's all. Cruiser riders all want that, right? Polaris is banking on it. Almost everyone who test rides the Indian talks about how powerful it feels, so it's working for them.
 

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...what beginning rider goes out and buys a $20,000 motorcycle? These are not "starter bikes".
My "starter" bike retailed for right around $27K but then again I have always been one to "buck the trend" so ...it DOES happen thumb up
 

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But you realize you are the exception not the rule. Building 20K starter bikes would break a company.
I do but the current Indian lineup is just that. If you want an Indian, you are going to have to pay $20K and it is their ONLY product (right now). It does look like Polaris is targeting the doctors and lawyers who have the disposable income and (up until now) have only had one choice of bikes to blow all that cash on, Harley.

Certainly, those that do their research (like myself) will have discovered Victory and realized the fantastic value of these products but let's face it, for every 1 of me there are 100 (or 1000) others who can't or won't do the due diligence. Those faceless masses would rather walk into a "posh" dealership, throw their cash on the counter and have experience of riding off into the sunset on the latest shinny thing.

I have a lot of bike riding friends and most of them ride Harleys. It's primarily due to perception. Indian is working that perception to put them in the same category as HD. Want nice & shinny and tired of HD or want to be "the NEW" HD before the rest of your friends have one? Yep, step right up and we will sell you (and ALL your buddies) a $20K Indian Chief!!!

PS - I didn't spend anywhere near the retail $'s on my bike so I was fudging there a bit but I DID spend a bit over $20K on it! cheers
 

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Did anyone read the article?
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/10/17171/Motorcycle-Article/2014-Heritage-Softail-vs-Indian-Chief-Vintage.aspx

I didn't watch the vids, I read the article. It reads TOTALLY different than the vids sound.

In the Video "They really took their time bringing it to market".
What? It was 27 months from a blank page to a bike we can ride.
Bryan Harley's voice and mannerisms make me want to turn the video off as soon as he starts talking...

They don't talk up the HD like that in the article. How great the engine is... how good it handles...





The Indian peaks at 4500 RPM and is done at 5000... The Harley winds out to 5500... but the Harley still loses on power. The "A" motor from a Road King would have done a little better than the "B" motor of the Softail.




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Ya know..the more I read about Indian the more interested I feel my self being drawn to it.
This won't happen for a long time as I am very happy with my XCT. A demo ride on a chieftain at Americade next year will be on the list.
 

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The Indian peaks at 4500 RPM and is done at 5000... The Harley winds out to 5500... but the Harley still loses on power. The "A" motor from a Road King would have done a little better than the "B" motor of the Softail.
The new 2014 RK gets a little hotter cams this year too, but frankly I don't notice huge power differentials between any of the big twins I've ridden. They all are more than adequate for backroad applications. I've never gotten a big twin Harley on an interstate to see if it had adequate chops for that. And that is where I've found some big twins lacking in the past.
 

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Exactly. Not much to brag about.



Yeah... the Indian is a 2 valve motor. The valve arrangement looks like a freakin' Briggs & Stratton. The Yamaha, on the other hand, is 4 valve so it naturally breathes better.

There's one other factor that is undeniable... it matters... The Yamaha is Japanese, the Indian and HD are American Icons. In this country, even if the Yamaha made sandwiches and did dishes it would still be a 'lesser' motorcycle in the eyes of the American consumer. Hell, American consumers STILL look at Victory as a "metric" and classify them right in there with a Japanese bike. "It'll never be a Harley", right? Indian will out-sell Victory in their second year. Why? Simple, it's a household American name. Period.

The Indian engine is built to make strong grunt on the bottom end and that's all. Cruiser riders all want that, right? Polaris is banking on it. Almost everyone who test rides the Indian talks about how powerful it feels, so it's working for them.
I see yamaha as a superior brand to victory. Fit and finish, as far as mechanical goes. I find out after I get back from Lloyds on the 29th. Can't speak for customer support on Yamaha, well I guess I could, I never had to call them for my bikes or wave runner. Brother has a 96 honda he loves 50k miles no problems since he had it.
The 2 years I've owned my pin, I've had more problems then my bikes/wave runner combined. Shitty paint noisy clutch that dealer and polaris claim it to be normal.

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I see yamaha as a superior brand to victory. Fit and finish, as far as mechanical goes, I find out after I get back from Lloyds on the 29th. The 2 years I've owned my pin, I've had more problems then my bikes/wave runner combined. Shitty paint noisy clutch that dealer and polaris claim it to be normal.
People always say 'fit and finish'... are there parts that don't fit right, or are we talking about 'finishes' meaning paint and chrome?

What does Lloydz have to do with the comparison of Yamaha and Victory? I'll put it like this, it's about potential performance when you factor in Patrick Racing and Lloydz Motorworks. It says nothing of how mechanically sound Yamaha and Victory motorcycles are.

Your issues were not exactly catastrophic in nature. Tiny paint spots (after the warranty as up) and clutch noise. Clutches are never covered under warranty (wear part) and you can't expect them to warrant the paint after the warranty period is over. Yes, it is unfortunate that you had these minor (and I repeat MINOR) issues with your motorcycle, but it hardly shows that Victory is a shitty bike or that Polaris sucks at customer service.

It isn't like these issues you had are inherent issues with Victory motorcycles. There are thousands of owners who post on these forums and yours is the first I heard of those paint bubbles. Lots of us have high mileage and untouched clutches too.

I'm not attacking you, and I'm not a cheerleader for Victory... but just because you didn't like the answer you got from Vic Corporate, that doesn't make Victory a crappy motorcycle.
 

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Lloyds has to do with fixing what victory dealer failed to fix.
The paint and I'm tired of Saying it, is from the initial paint process a manufacture defect.
So their paint sucks maybe my bike was a Friday bike.
Between the yamaha and victory. Handling goes to victory, performance goes to yamaha, paint finish yamaha. Comfort yamaha.
Performance goes to yamaha mainly because I had to buy the iav and vfc to aid in getting rid of popping. And stfu if you say well the bike needs to meet epa. There is obviously other ways to meet epa. You don't hear any other bike fucking popping on road. Without the vfc it runs like a poorly tuned carb engine.

Would I try an Indian. Probably in a few years but don't expect to be satisfied considering the dyno comparison, and the vics paint
Going back to bed
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