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The Rich get richer and the Poor get poorer. And the middle-class will soon be non-existent.

It's not a myth !!!

http://youtu.be/QPKKQnijnsM
 

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uH-oH , This could start a serious **** show ....wac
 

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Canada's chart looks very similar but not quite as bad.... The problem we have in Canada is the middle class pay as much percentage of tax as the rich folk. I get 39% of everyone of my pay cheques taken from me and given directly to the government. If I make $200,000 I give $78,000 away. What is your guys scale like?


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You wait America does not export much of any thing.
We buy everything from over seas. Computers phones cars even a lot of our food and not to mention shirts pants jackets.
Our money has no value.
One day we will be slave labor for foreign country's. Or there will be a war to end all wars.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Canada's chart looks very similar but not quite as bad.... The problem we have in Canada is the middle class pay as much percentage of tax as the rich folk. I get 39% of everyone of my pay cheques taken from me and given directly to the government. If I make $200,000 I give $78,000 away. What is your guys scale like?


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The thing about what you're saying is: those who make that kind of money (and more) have more ability to invest in tax shelters which effectively reduces that 39%. Those in lower income brackets, while paying less % tax, have little to no ability to do the same.

The end result of that is still the lower income earners end up paying the brunt of the tax revenue.
 

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What is your guys scale like?
Depends how you make your money here. If you make ordinary income it is progressive though there are a lot of tax breaks available to higher income individuals that make it much less so than it should be.

If OTOH, you make your money via capital gains, you can damn near skate on taxes. Many working people even applaud this redistribution of wealth to the wealthy. Those people are right about one thing. Their public education wasn't very good...
 

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The problem overall is just plain greed.

Corporations now have NO loyalty to their employees but instead to their shareholders. Who gleefully wish all their employees were outsourced and making $1.00/day. And upper mgt gets millions in stock options, so it's in THEIR best interest to layoff or pay workers crap.

Other countries, CEOs makes 20-30x the avg employee. US CEOs makes about 600-700x times that.

There isn't a whole lot we can do other than to TAX capital gains at 40%, reduce taxes on regular folks, and have companies get huge tax breaks for hiring AMERICAN workers.

There was a bill on that, but the GOP filibustered it. Guess they want us all making $1.00/day.
 

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Reduced taxes for the common man ???!!! Never gonna happen . We will bask in mediocrity .
 

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Reduced taxes for the common man ???!!! Never gonna happen . We will bask in mediocrity .
What are you talking about Lil? Obama extended the Bush tax cuts to the "common man" indefinitely. He gave us a year or two (don't remember) of payroll tax cuts. If he had support, there is no doubt in my mind that he'd end tax breaks for outsourcing and hedge fund managers taking advantage of carried interest provisions.

What you don't understand and probably don't care about as a guy (probably in a union) working for a major corporation is that the avg worker is taking a beating now. And as long as Republicans have the power to block everything, nothing is going to change that.
 

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When 0 took over I got 13.00 a week more in my check , that is no more , and because of it I had to cancel my dental ins. 11.00 a week , and this has been over a year or so ... You may have some kind of tax break , but when I look at my paycheck ,I want to puke . I get no break .
 

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I'm not in a union and never have been , the wife is a part time lunch lady at the local elementary school , I sell Ford parts for a privately owned Ford dealership , and am barely making ends meet as the wife just started back to school last month after the summer school vacation... I am the epitome of a struggling family as I have 6 daughters , all over 18 and 4 still living at home and 1 grandson also... I'm fucking lucky I even have a bike to ride..... Believe me I pay my fair share of taxes too ....:(
 

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I look at my cheq's and I want to puke as well... It is very disturbing how much of our money just disappears into thin air. That part that bothers me the most as middle class citizen... I don't see anything for it!!! My healthcare cost the same as a rich guys. My kids get the same education as the poor kids. I put out all this money and what do I get?


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I look at my cheq's and I want to puke as well... It is very disturbing how much of our money just disappears into thin air. That part that bothers me the most as middle class citizen... I don't see anything for it!!! My healthcare cost the same as a rich guys. My kids get the same education as the poor kids. I put out all this money and what do I get?
A rockin' Victory motorsickle!
 

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The problem I have with that video is he compares percentages, without full disclosure of all the values he is calculating percentages of. He talks about the middle class having a smaller percentage of the nation's wealth now than in the 70's and he gives the current nation's worth, but not the 70's. A convenient omission if the current share is actually higher than in the 70's in spite of a smaller percentage. If my wife and I had a net income of $100,000 ten years ago and i earned 50% of that and if our income was $200,000 now and I now earned only 40%, I'm actually doing better not worse as he suggests.



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The problem I have with that video is he compares percentages, without full disclosure of all the values he is calculating percentages of. He talks about the middle class having a smaller percentage of the nation's wealth now than in the 70's and he gives the current nation's worth, but not the 70's. A convenient omission if the current share is actually higher than in the 70's in spite of a smaller percentage. If my wife and I had a net income of $100,000 ten years ago and i earned 50% of that and if our income was $200,000 now and I now earned only 40%, I'm actually doing better not worse as he suggests.
DING, DING, DING, no more calls please we have a WINNER!!!
Yep, the FIRST thing I wonder about when I see things like this that are INTENTIONALLY skewed so that they appeal to most people is that critical information is left out of the tirad.

Wealth vs. income segment hits right around the 2 minute in mark. It "conveniently" throws in an artificial and ignorant statement claiming 92% of people choose XYZ as a "reasonable" curve. Well, then 92% of people are IDIOTS and that would explain why SO many have it SO wrong. If 92% of the population is SO wrong, that means that only 8% of the population even came close to understanding the distribution. Now, the critical mis-label here is the "middle class".

The KEY to this entire premise actually occurs @ the 5 minute mark in when it talks about stock/bonds & mutual fund ownership with the top 1% owning nearly 50% of those. There is 10000% logic in that as THEY are the ones who can afford to invest, right? Everybody who has even an iota of intelligence KNOWS that you aren't going to make money without money to invest. The problem is that so few actually DO invest.

98% of the country appears to be SO ignorant as to think that they can simply sit on their cash (in zero percent return savings accounts) and ...be fine. Sorry, but those people deserve to fall further and further into the lower income groups. \

So, is the answer to simply GIVE poor people investment portfolios and allow those investment $'s to generate income for them? Hardly, the FIRST thing those people would do would be to sell any and all investments and then either spend it wastefully (e.g. buy a caddy and park it in front of their rented mobile home) or sell it for other more practical reasons (like paying off a student loan). The bottom line is that ONLY the wealthy are "smart enough" to properly invest.

I DO agree that CEO and a few other 1%ers are getting WAY more than they deserve but guess what? Those people are the 1%ers', not the 10%ers or even the 20%ers and guess what, they aren't being paid those insanely high salaries by the PUBLIC. Nope, it's private industry that is perpetrating the in-equities in pay for the top 1% and the court of public opinion don't mean JACK to those corporations.

By now everyone watching that video probably thinks that they are middle class, right? Because, we are all just "scraping by" and things ARE tougher than they were 10 or 20 years ago, right? OK, so go ahead and PICK YOUR NUMBER. You know, add up what you and your wife made last year in income. You don't have to tell it to anyone. Just keep it to yourself. Now, where does YOUR own personal income fall in terms of $'s per year EARNED? Now, mentally align yourself with that perception. Go ahead, we can wait...
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still waiting
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got it? OK, good! You are middle class, right? Maybe a few upper class, right? WRONG!
You see the Majority of you are likely upper-middle or even could be in that top 5% that this video is ACTUALLY targeted by this video! Don't believe me? REALLY? OK, here are some hard FACTS on income for 2010 by the US Government's IRS...

WHAT THE TOP 1%, 5%, 10%, 25% and 50% MAKE IN AMERICA
Based on the Internal Revenue Service’s 2010 database below, here’s how much the top Americans make:
Top 1%: $380,354
Top 5%: $159,619
Top 10%: $113,799
Top 25%: $67,280
Top 50%: >$33,048
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See what I am getting at? The AVERAGE Union employee working at a UNION Factory (e.g. some skill but not THAT unique) is making nearly $60K a year (around $28/hour). If he has a wife working in that same plant, guess what? They are now in the top 10% of income in the US! That's right, as a FAMILY, you can make as little as $100K and be classified as THE DEVIL by this video and the public perception so the moral to this story is... don't ever tell ANYONE how much you make or even acknowledge to yourself the reality if you want to actually consume this kind of rhetoric. So, if you made anywhere NEAR $100K/year and aren't investing in ....something, then you are going to be falling further and further behind the curve. I see many talk about investing yet very few actually DO anything about it. Year-to-Date I have made nearly 40% of my income through investing. I am NOT retired. I am NOT one of the top 1% or top 5% (without counting investments) but I AM smart enough to invest. Hopefully, everyone reading this post will "wake up" and realize that in order to even keep up, you HAVE to invest your savings... somewhere.

Oh, yea and to Meeve... How are you enjoying being in the top 5%? Ready to give up even MORE of your earnings in order to fund socialism as this video is suggesting?
 

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Lil do you get money back when you file your taxes???tax rates are the same as under Bush. Payroll tax was never set to be permanent. It was part of the stimulus plan you know the thing Republicans hate. I would love to see your 08 income vs your 12 income and see what the difference is. BTW don't use withholding as a savings plan.
 

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The problem I have with that video is he compares percentages, without full disclosure of all the values he is calculating percentages of. He talks about the middle class having a smaller percentage of the nation's wealth now than in the 70's and he gives the current nation's worth, but not the 70's.
How does it matter. If the current "worth" of the nation is $100 and it was $10 in 1970, any fixed percentage of the pie is the same. Say that the distribution of wealth had not changed since 1970 and the middle class had an 80%. If you did a pie chart of their share then and now, they would look identical. The fact that our currency has devalued over time does not affect the results of a statistical distribution.

A convenient omission if the current share is actually higher than in the 70's in spite of a smaller percentage. If my wife and I had a net income of $100,000 ten years ago and i earned 50% of that and if our income was $200,000 now and I now earned only 40%, I'm actually doing better not worse as he suggests.
Your analogy makes no sense. Comparing what a couple makes over time and comparing a segment of the population's percentage share of total income are two vastly different things.

If you are arguing that the middle class had an $8 share of the $10 pie in 1970 and still has an $8 share of a $100 dollar pie today and you wonder what they are bitching about, just stop and consider what things cost in 1970 vs today. In 1970, that $8 would have gotten you housing, clothing, food, tuition, medical care etc. Now that $8 won't buy you a nice cardboard box to put up in a park.
 

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That's right, as a FAMILY, you can make as little as $100K and be classified as THE DEVIL by this video
Please point out where in the video that the author villifies anyone. This is your perception based on how unfairly the numbers work out, but not suggested by the author unless I missed it. I'll be happy to re-watch if you could kindly give me the area of the vid where he let's em have it.


Year-to-Date I have made nearly 40% of my income through investing.
Don't get too cocky. Such assets are being inflated thru gov't policy not great earnings. Six months and another round of Republican hostage taking from now, you may find those assets are worth a whole lot less.
 

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We, Americans, stood idly by nodding our heads in quiet agreement with our "leaders" on both sides of the aisle as they succumbed to the decades long harangue from the well heeled who funded their campaigns.

During the 70's and 80's we, Americans, bought this idiotic concept that sacrificing our manufacturing base was going to result in us being a clean fingernails "service economy" and through some disjointed, convoluted pile of lies we would all rise to new levels of economic security and global envy while the little yellow and brown people did all the grunt work.

Well, how's that working out?

By the by, that vid is not an objective representation. The source material is waay left. There's better data out there that supports the hypothesis without the chart magic that the vid took pains to provide.

The truth will out however and we have killed the golden goose so a few can gut it for an egg.

I'm not a union guy either but here's a couple of facts that you and I ought to face Mags. If I had remained a union man which I left if 1979 my pension today would be worth over a million dollars. If the manufacturing base had remained on the growth curve it had experienced post war then your job at a Ford dealership might have been a line job in Framingham and a Ford union job in 1970 moved on that trajectory your wage today would translate to buying power in excess of 100k a year. Some folks is going to cry that if we had stayed on that curve the cost of everything would have priced us out of the market. There's all kinds of ways that those numbers can get pencil whipped, inflation through increased cost of products, international competition and so on.

Truth is, the inflation and whatnot happened anyway but the money moved over. It's still there, but redistribution of wealth really happened, only not the haves losing to the have nots like everybody squawks about. It went the other way around and we lemmings happily marched over the cliff for it. It continues today with the Supremes validating huge contributions to campaigns in the Peoples United ruling.

I ain't much of an alarmist and I don't can beets for the rapture but I was around for the race riots of the 60's so I got the memory of what happens when festering sores get ignored or band-aided. Hell, even if you weren't around for the Long Hot Summer of '67, one look at Detroit and there's proof now of what happened then. Race though is a specific problem to a specific demographic but it was enough to touch off a couple of crazy years. Today the expectation of doing better than your folks did is just a crock for most Americans and that demographic is a whole lot bigger. The real money players got to strike a balance where they invest enough of their winnings in keeping us fat and lazy. If you don't think hungry peeps will get all jiggy with guillotines and whatnot, ask the French and they'll tell you how "Let them eat cake" worked out for old Marie Antoinette.

We would do well to build some bakeries and train some skilled bakers so we can buy our own bread and cake but of course we told ourselves that building stuff and making stuff is beneath us. Instead we are importing our cake and selling it at a nice markup and we only got to pay min wage to the cash register operators who collect the scratch for us.

What could possibly go wrong?
 

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By the by, that vid is not an objective representation. The source material is waay left. There's better data out there that supports the hypothesis without the chart magic that the vid took pains to provide.
I agreed with everything in your post with the exception of the paragraph above.

1. What is political about about a chart of wealth distribution at various points in time and a discussion about polcies that may have led to it? Would it be more politically correct to pretend it hasn't happened and instead bellyache about welfare queens?

2. The author shows an ideal "Socialists" distribution of wealth and makes a comment that "we all know that can't work." While real Socialists in America are an extreme minority, I'm sure there are those out there who would argue that it could work. Anyway, noting that it can't seems to me to be a vote for capitalism which would be more closely linked to the right than the left.
 
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