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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Got my first oil analyisis back from Blackstone Lab on my XC.


In the notes it said that the silicon was high and it was possible that dirt was getting past the air filter. I figured I should check it out. So this evening I did.
Pulled the filter and everything looked good. It seemed to fit correctly, clamp down well etc. It is a Vic stage 1 reusable. Sort of a K&N knockoff. Then I found a some sand on the shelf behind the air cleaner. Not a lot but some. Which was much more than I wanted to find!

Everything looked OK till I felt the surface of where the air cleaner seats down at the very bottom, near the center of the frame. Right below the pencil point in this picture. On the cast surface that the filter seats on there is a defect, a low spot where the casting did not fill completely in the mold?

This defect is narrow and deep enough that it provides a path for dirt to enter the engine on my particular bike. The filter's rubber seal is actually larger there, kind of bulges out in the center and the there is a depression for this larger part of the filter's rubber seal to set in, right in the center of the frame. The defect is too narrow and deep for the rubber of the filter seal to conform to and some dirt is getting by.
I cleaned the few grains of sand out before I thought to take that picture.

If you have an X bike you might want to inspect this area of filter contact next time you clean or replace your filter.
I filled the divot in with shoe goop after I took the picture. That should take care of the deep spot. When I install the filter this time I will grease the sealing edges with high temp grease to help trap the dirt. Hopefully that will end the problem.

Just a heads up for others. Might want to feel your's for a similar defect when you have your filter out. Everything is the same color and it's an unfinished casting where the filter sets. It's hard to see any defects.
 

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Are bikes have about the same mileage on the Motor and sample and my numbers are a lot hire. The flash point of your oil is quite abit hire than mine,:confused: I realize that every engine is different, but there's way to much difference in the reports, makes me wonder how accurate BS is, Polly wont use them again....:eek:
 

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Thanks for posting that pic of the air box area...thumb up
 

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Over 2 years owning my XR and still have not took the tank off! I am coming up on 10K miles, should hit it in the early summer so I will be taking my tank off to replace my filter and will check it out.
 

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Joe
If you still have stock filter compare the two to see if there is a difference. Put the stock filter on the bike and look to see if the sealing of the filter is better. The k/n will not really give you that much more power so maybe stock will be better
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Are bikes have about the same mileage on the Motor and sample and my numbers are a lot hire. The flash point of your oil is quite abit hire than mine,:confused: I realize that every engine is different, but there's way to much difference in the reports, makes me wonder how accurate BS is, Polly wont use them again....:eek:
You are also running a complete synthetic which is sort of an apples and oranges comparison on the analysis. Yeah they are both fruit.... I have a pretty extensive backround in precision hydraulics and so are pretty familiar with oil analysis but not on motorcycles.
Some of it crosses over though.
Every machine is different. The most important thing is to send in a few samples for a baseline. Also it helps you establish how long to go between oil changes on the particular oil you are using in that particular engine or machine. Plus it will hopefully spot gross problems like my leaking air filter. I wouldn't be too spooked about the numbers being different since the oils are completely different. Just as long as the chemist isn't spooked who is doing the analysis, and he will tell you if he is, all is good.
In the 80's I was told that in a single barrel oil there was at least a couple of 100lbs of additives. It was a much larger number than I expected. Don't quote me cause I have selective memory and CRS both.. Just ask the wife. The number was very big considering it went into a motor and the thing ran fine on it.

Oil is chemical soup and chicken soup has different ingredients than beef noodle. Synthetic doesn't really have much in common with Dino oil except they both work pretty well at lubricating motors.

Looks like your air cleaner element sealed up just fine. Your silicon is lower and there is no note about a possible leak like in mine. Life is good!

Over 2 years owning my XR and still have not took the tank off! I am coming up on 10K miles, should hit it in the early summer so I will be taking my tank off to replace my filter and will check it out.
I just looked at the OL's and hers is the same as mine. Same divot
You can see where the dirt has migrated past the bottom of the filter seal. I'll post some pictures later when I get a chance if they come out. So you might want to take a look. I am going to start greasing the bottom of the sealing surface now that I have filled in the divot just to be certain that there is no more dirt migration.
We live on a dirt road so keeping dirt from getting past the air filter is really important to the lives of our vehicles. Luckily we didn't get much riding in this year due to my warranty issues and her getting hurt twice.

Joe
If you still have stock filter compare the two to see if there is a difference. Put the stock filter on the bike and look to see if the sealing of the filter is better. The k/n will not really give you that much more power so maybe stock will be better
I'll bet you are correct.
Unfortunately I'm not home, no stock filter here. . They definitely have a different seal on them. Can't check though.

But I got to hand it to you, you were right that the K&N style filters that Vic sells pass more dirt on a ViC. That is something you said before in a post and having used them for years didn't believe you because normally it is just the opposite on a k&N as long as you don't constantly clean it.
In this case the dirt is coming under the filter because of the design of the frame and the under filling of the casting at that one point. Just confirmed it on the Ol's bike, pictures later if it shows up.

A layer of grease should completely solve it once the shoe goo that I put in the divot on her's at the center core line sets up.

EDIT : You couldn't see the defect very well so I just posted the picture of the dirty filter seal in a post later in the thread.
 

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I have always wondered this myself, all that sand, bugs etc on the other side of the filter at least in cars. I keep all my cars until they die so is it that big of a deal? Logic tells me that sand etc going into the combustion chamber can't be good but it is always my transmission not the engine that usually dies first.
 

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Excellent catch, Joe. I'm sure a lot others will be looking for this defect you've discovered.thumb up
 

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All this just sounds like a good excuse to get the Lloydz filter if you ask me.
 

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Joe
like the grease idea good thinking
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Here is a picture of the lower sealing surface of my wife's filter.
You can see the dirt has been migrating through. Those light brown specks are dirt that is embedded in the filter sealing surface. I had to scrape the particles off with my finger nail.


This filter as shown in this picture had already been washed twice and left over night to dry before oiling.
The other 3 sealing surfaces of the filter were clean. Just the one surface was leaking dirt where the defect in the frame was, and yes it is clean now.:)

I ordered some of the correct grease to have on hand, K&N makes a grease for this purpose:
No one local had the K&N product in stock.

Here is a quote from the K&N filter FAQ's about what sort of grease to use to seal a K&N filter with.

12. My filter came with a tube of sealing grease. How important is it?

It is rather important. It helps to maintain a seal on an uneven air box surface. If sealing grease is unavailable, white lithium or synthetic grease will work just fine. Petroleum-based products are not recommended.


So when the correct grease arrives I guess I will have to pull the both apart and re do them. The grease I used is not a synthetic.::(

If you find you have a divot across the sealing surface, probably anything like sensor safe gasket maker or shoe goo or whatever can be used to fill it in. Real silicone is probably not a good idea if you are using your O2 sensors cause it is supposed to kill them. I think about anything else would work. I had mixed success with the shoe goo. On mine it puddled and filled the groove right in. On the OL's I had to cut up a course sanding sponge and sand off the high points after it cured to get a flat surface. Then thoroughly clean the area as well as pick some balls of it off the surface with needle nose.
Just 10 extra minutes but it wouldn't have been any better an area for the filter to seal on without the extra care. Plus is it adheres well and it is a harder surface than gasket sealer is.

Because the air filter clamp is in the way it is difficult to see if that core line is depressed or not where it crosses the ledge that the filter seals on. You can certainly feel it if there is a depression there though. Either you have a narrow dent across the sealing surface like we did or you don't.

Weeds obviously doesn't have this problem since his test came back so low in silicon. Next couple of oil samples will tell if the problem is solved or not.

Sorry for the crappy pictures but I couldn't get my camera in there at the correct angle for a better shot.cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I have always wondered this myself, all that sand, bugs etc on the other side of the filter at least in cars. I keep all my cars until they die so is it that big of a deal? Logic tells me that sand etc going into the combustion chamber can't be good but it is always my transmission not the engine that usually dies first.
A lot of that dirt eventually ends up in the oil, as you can see from the oil analysis. Doesn't take much of it to ruin a good motor.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Joe
like the grease idea good thinking
Wish I could take credit for it John. It's SOP with K&N filters used for off road. They usually come with a tube of it in the box with the filter when you buy one. The grease really works. On some of our other bikes I run home made felt gaskets on one or both sides of the air filters that are packed with grease because of the dirt road I am on. They really help, especially if the filter housing isn't perfect.
 

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Hey Joe, when I install the Lloyds filter I'll check the sealing area, ya my silicone levels were lower according to the test results...:)
 
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