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Discussion Starter #1
Left work after lunch today, got on my XR and hit the road. Rode for about 3.5 hours and having a great day till I was about .5 miles from home. Turning right off of a 4 lane onto my county road a guy crossing the 4 lane from the other side decided he didn't need to stop for me. I don't know how I didn't hit him or drop the bike but I locked up the rear brake and started sliding with the rear end coming out to the left of me. I came to a stop parallel with this guys truck and the bike was going down but I somehow was able to hold the bike up with my leg and get it pushed back up right. Rode the few hundred yard back to my driveway wondering why I didn't get a '12 XR with ABS. There were not many XR's left in my area when I bought mine and the closest 2012 model was 3.5 hours away and the 2011 that I bought was the closest XR to me at 1 hour up the road. I always use the front brake first and ease on the rear brake but I don't know what I did in this situation.
 

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What you did was stop before hitting the truck. The back end sliding around and ending parallel to the truck most likely kept you from hitting it versus ABS that would have maybe kept you straight but not stopped short of the truck. How close were you to the truck when you stopped? The rear brake will lock up under heavy braking because of the weight transfer to the front. Does not take much rear brake to cause this.
 

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I haven't done a review on these yet but I installed the TCB Brake System (http://www.tcbbrakesystems.com/) for my '10 XC. I seriously considered upgrading to the ABS of an '11 or '12 at one point before finding these. Essentially, they replace the banjo bolts on your wheels, one per brake pad.

The question is do they work? Absolutely!

I have video and analysis on my bike that proves it. I went to a parking lot and did a few "panic" stops from 40 MPH to zero. Without the system, my average stopping distance was 112 ft. and it was impossible to keep the rear end from sliding out.

After installing the TCB system, my average stopping distance was reduced to 80 ft.! And there was no rear-end slide! Just a straight stop, no drama.

The most difficult part is trusting the system - you have to train yourself to clamp and hold (those of us accustomed to standard disk brakes, non ABS, will squeeze and let go, squeeze and let go, to avoid having the rear end slide).

Very effective. I've put them on both of our Victories.
 

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And, actually, looking at my notes, the first test with the TCB system was 95 ft. but that's because I didn't trust the system and hold the brakes.

On my second and third attempts, my stopping distance was a very consistent 73 ft. and 74 ft.

I was going to do more testing but I didn't want to ruin my tires anymore than I already had.
 

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TNXR:

Very well done! It's crazy to realize you were almost taken out so close to home. Happy to hear you are a-ok. :clap:

Jagular:

I never heard of this device before. I just checked out the link you provided and it's certainly something to consider. Thanks for your write up. thumb up
 

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Jagular:

I never heard of this device before. I just checked out the link you provided and it's certainly something to consider. Thanks for your write up. thumb up
I agree. That device is another one that deserves its own thread. I ride my FJR in the winter and the ABS is constantly activating on the wet/sandy/salty surfaces. My XR doesn't have ABS and it bothers me a lot. I've had many bikes without it, but its like heated gear, once you find out how useful it is, it is lunacy to every go back.

As to stabbing the rear in a panic stop, I've done that numerous times too. I think it's a reaction that's probably ingrained from driving a car. It may not be a totally bad reaction as it is easier to control a bike sliding on its rear wheel than one sliding on its front wheel; though usually, it ends up with me fish tailing erratically.
 

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tnxr glad you are ok and didnt get no damage if it was me i probaly would have had a few choice words for the cager
 

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+1 with Saddlebags comparison to a car. You as well as most people on this forum most likely have a lot more seat time in a car or truck than a bike so instinct is going to make you hit a brake pedal harder than a hand brake. IMHO people coming from long time experiance on bikes with linked brakes probably have it worse because they have to get used to using the rear brake on it's own. Hitting the front brakes too hard at the wrong time or the wrong situation could cause much more drama than anticipated.
 

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Glad to hear that you made it out of all this ok, sounds like a shorts-changing incident for sure.

I don't believe I will ever own another non-ABS bike again. It has been proven time and again in every study that ABS WILL stop you shorter and more confidently, than even the most highly skilled rider could do on their own without it.

I had a lock-up once on my Hammer S. Was going through a large intersection (very wide one) when out of nowhere a cop decided to blow the light, turning on his lights and sirens AS he hit the intersection. I was doing about 45mph and he scared the **** out of me... I hit both brakes in order to keep from plowing into him, my ass end hopped a bit then slid around beside me. Luckily he blew by so I was able to downshift, rail on the throttle and keep the bike upright. I pulled over on the next block, hopped off and shook for a while as I blew through a couple cigarettes.

My first ABS (plus traction control) bike was my Ducati Diavel Carbon, never had to do a panic stop with it. My Road Glide is also ABS and I have had one panic stop on it, and the ABS system worked fine. You just have to remember NOT to downshift and dump the clutch to help slow you down as you might on a non-ABS bike... it confuses the ABS system and can cause it to malfunction (or so I have been told...and I ain't testing it).

With bikes as heavy as our baggers, ABS is not only smart, but damn near a necessity really.

If you can afford it, do the upgrade. It might just save your life next time.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
When the guy crossed the 4-lane I had already slowed down, gone into second gear and was starting to lean to the right a little to make the turn. I think I must have stomped that rear brake pretty hard which I normally don't do but like many have you said, I am used to driving my 3/4 ton truck everyday. I did give the guy a good chewing because it was warm and he had both windows down. He was an old guy with his wife and I think it scared them more than me but he just did not pay any attention when crossing the 4-lane. I think he would have pulled through the highway even if a semi was coming. Do I regret not pursuing a 2012 model and getting ABS? Yes but I bought what I bought and will be keeping it for a few years.
 

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First thing is... good on ya! Perspective gets tweaked at the edge of catastrophe. That nitwit at the intersection gave you the gift of putting your toes on the edge of the chasm and staring down the hole but not having the earth crumble under your feet. Gives a fella a chance to ruminate a little bit over some things that might not otherwise have come up in an uneventful midweek putt. Pop ain't advocating for testing the limits as a routine, just saying that it sometimes happens and with those events comes the ability to run gutchecks on life from a keener POV (if you are so inclined).
As far as ABS goes, I have it now, had it before and have bikes without it as I always have. Is it an improvement? Absolutely. Is it worth adding to an existing bike? Is an airbag? Anti tip? Perhaps a roll bar? (Don't laugh, it's been done). To each his own for sure but I struggle to find the thread of logic in opting to spend thousands of dollars to purchase a machine that is inherently dangerous and in no small part because of that ever present danger, exhilarating and life affirming, and then dull as much of the sharp edges off that knife as technology and bank account will allow.
I don't buy bikes because of ABS. Matter of fact, the ABS decals on my Cross Country are getting kicked to the curb. I will leave the 106 stickers because that played into my purchasing decision but advertising the ABS on my bike? Those decals could have just as well said" radial tires" or "fluid dampened forks" or whatever technological improvement that has incrementally tamed the motorcycle over the years.
I'm going with Wilcon. The takeaway here for me is that in the absence of ABS you walked away from a potentially bad end to a good ride. That does't mean that ABS wouldn't have helped, but it does mean that it didn't help.
On another note lest we forget the obvious, TNXR (if I'm reading this right) was in an intersection that he travels dozens or more times a year because it's right by the house. That's the intersection that he knows like the back of his hand, that's the intersection that he can navigate blindfolded, and that is the intersection where he almost got a comeuppance the other day. Not saying that you won't be picking Perterbilt logos out of your hide a thousand miles from home some day. The likelier situation is your get tagged right in your dooryard.
 

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I will leave the 106 stickers because that played into my purchasing decision but advertising the ABS on my bike?
Think re-sale. If you're like me and tend toward occasional absent mindedness, a little reminder of a sought after feature might save ya a few bucks at negotiation time.

Perterbilt logos out of your hide a thousand miles from home some day. The likelier situation is your get tagged right in your dooryard.
Not that I ever spent much time contemplating it, but I read once somebody explain why this is...and then I struck myself on the forward and muttered DOH! The reason people are more likely to get in accidents near their domiciles isn't because the roads near their dwelling are anymore dangerous than anywhere else, but because that is where most folks spend the vast majority of their time operating their vehicles.
 

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Applying rear break first will lock up the rear wheel and Throw you to the ground.
You half to tell your self over an over front break is for stopping rear break is to slow you down. :(
FRONT break first. thumb up
We have car mentality so when we panic stop foot is automatically used.
When you get on the bike and as you ride keep telling your self front break first.
Ride like motorcycle racers do. First to finger of right hand rest on brake lever at all times it will add twenty seconds to your life. Yes twenty seconds is not that much but its better then being twenty seconds late. thumb up
 

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Applying rear break first will lock up the rear wheel and Throw you to the ground.
Only if you let go of it too soon.

FRONT break first. thumb up
In dry, clean conditions I agree with you, but use it sans ABS in a low traction environment at your own risk. Been there, done that, and got to pull my bike out from under a bus full of children.
 

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My 2 cents (again! - by now you should be rich)

Here are my 2 cents (again! - by now you should be rich :ltr:):

Worst thing to do in an emergency is to panic. I don't know about you guys, but when I panic, I don't think straight, and I end up making silly decisions, like lock the brakes, or give up hope that I can escape an accident, or other goofy decisions. So, even with ABS on, if you panic, you can still make the wrong decision. Stopping is not always the best alternative.

The key to remaining calm even when an accident seems imminent is to practice emergency stops, and swerves. Swerving will get you out of trouble quicker than braking will. You can fit where cars cannot fit to avoid an accident, but you have to be able to put the bike where you want it to go. Try to focus less on stopping (which is also an ingrained habit from driving), and always keep an eye for escape routes. I try to always be looking for an alternative escape route, even if it's just a brain exercise. If you train yourself to escape first, and brake hard only if no escape route exists, your odds of accident avoidance will increase.
 

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Applying rear break first will lock up the rear wheel and Throw you to the ground.
You half to tell your self over an over front break is for stopping rear break is to slow you down. :(
FRONT break first. thumb up
We have car mentality so when we panic stop foot is automatically used.
When you get on the bike and as you ride keep telling your self front break first.
Ride like motorcycle racers do. First to finger of right hand rest on brake lever at all times it will add twenty seconds to your life. Yes twenty seconds is not that much but its better then being twenty seconds late. thumb up
Applying rear brake first (measured in milliseconds) actually shifts more weight towards the front of the bike, providing more traction to the front tire, allowing you to brake harder in the front, where 70% to 95% of your stopping power comes from.

A rear wheel lock-up rarely results in an instantaneous ejection of the rider(unless you're in a corner). When the rear locks up, the skidding tire, traveling faster than the non-skidding front tire, attempts to pass to front tire, resulting in the bike turning/traveling sideways. The ejections come from a quick release of the rear brake when the bike is traveling in a "sideways" fashion. The bike, due to physics, "rights itself" very quickly, throwing you off (known as a high-side). This is why many trainers will tell you to "ride out a rear tire skid" and is what the OP did in this case.

Applying too much front brake can and often does result in the bike instantly going down and throwing you to the ground. It is very, very difficult to recover from a front wheel lockup. This is why a lot of old timers used to tell folks to use only the rear brakes. This is also where ABS helps in so many cases every year.

The best braking, that which will allow you to stop in the shortest distance, without being ejected, comes from using both your front and rear brakes at or close to the same time.

I started riding ABS bikes in 2009 and have ridden over 150,000 miles with them in all kinds of conditions in rainy, gravelly Oregon. When it comes to emergency stops -- they are the best technology to enter the motorcycling world in the last 20 years, a true game-changer!

They allow you to fly down the freeway at 80mph in torrential rains and brake as hard as you can in an inch of standing water, and all you do is stop, every time, faster than any professional racer could stop w/o ABS. They help you when braking over surfaces like pea gravel, painted lines, man-hole covers and soft tar. Even if a crash is imminent, they allow you to shave off more speed prior to the crash than you would have been able to shave off w/o ABS.

A bike with ABS in an emergency situation, will always stop in less distance than that same bike will travel with the rear wheel locked up like what happened in this situation.

I'm glad you survived this episode and it sounds like you did a very good job as you were able to keep upright and come to a stop before a disaster! Your near-miss was very similar to one I had right before I switched to ABS and it bugged me so much that I eventually bit the bullet and sold my 9mo old non-abs bike for an ABS version. It cost me some dough but I have never regretted it.

To each his own!

http://www.iihs.org/brochures/motorcycleABS.html
 
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