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Discussion Starter #1
1--Harley Davidson makes the absolute best painted motorcycles in the world. If what you want is a bike with the best paint in the world, HD is on your list. R&D is not going into technogoly--it must be going into the paint. The 2014 Heritage rides just like the 2003 Heritage. The 2014 Sportster rides like my 2005 Sporty. My 2006 Road King is just---well, you get the point.

2--I have been telling the wife she can get a dog if I get an new Indian. After riding one, I took the offer off the table. I was very under-impressed. The engine and transmission are wonderful, but the bike I rode did not fit my 6'1" 235 lb frame. It was not as cramped as the Sportster, but it was not comfortable to me at all. I was going to ride other models, but it was not worth the wait. It may have been a different seat--this one had a backrest and I was so far forward I could not enjoy it at all. The throttle lag was VERY noticeable to me and a real put off. The transmission is light years ahead of my Vic. The Thunderstroke engine and transmission combo--along with Harley paint mounted on my XR would make my Cross Roads the perfect bike.

3--Without a doubt, the bike that impressed me the most---(I am ashamed to admit this because I have been bashing it like everybody else)---The Gunner!!!! I made the same comments that it is not a new bike as advertised. I said it is just a Vegas with different tins. Well, I am here to tell you that I ate a lot of crow in 15 short minutes. It is not a Vegas, Hammer, Judge, or Boardwalk. THIS BIKE PULLS STRONGER THAN ANY CRUISER I HAVE RIDEN. The 109 ft lbs of torque and lighter weight was a difference I did not expect. The geometry or tire size--or something makes it handle more like a sportbike than a cruiser. It turns quicker and leans further than any cruiser I have been on. I don't know what changes to the engine there is that makes it different, but it is the hardest pulling, best handling Victory made. The down side is that it is not made to fit every biker. It is not an all day ride. It will only take one person at a time. The guy on the Hammer behind me could not keep up. He came up to talk after the ride and was telling me how HE was impressed watching and trying to keep up with me on the Hammer. I asked what he rode --- he said "Harley dresser, but not for long. I will be riding that in a few weeks". He was pointing at the XC and grinning. I told him my stories about switching from Harley to Vic and he agreed. He was riding everything at the Vic tent and had his mind made up on the Cross Country. I had to leave, but he was going out again-- he was going on the Gunner.

Anyway, my point is that I was judging the Gunner before I rode it. It does not fit my style, but if a bag of money fell in my yard and I had the chance to go buy another bike-- just for me--............

Well, I went to Daytona mostly to ride the new Indian and I was SURE that I was going to come home with the hots for a Vintage, but here I am more impressed by Vic's new entry level and lowest cost bike. I still can't believe I am writing this :confused::confused:
 

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You are the second guy who I have heard say almost the exact same thing... According to Ma Vic nothing has changed engine wise. Goddamn it now I have to go try one after bashing the hell out of it!!!
 

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Could this be a lesson to all of those that underestimate Victory?
I have not bashed it because I have never ridden one, and don't know anyone that owns one.
 

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I would be wanting to raise bars right off the bat.

looks like fun though.
I wonder why they are useing Dunlops on Gunner and Judge and Metzeler on High Ball.
I didn't like the Metzeler on my High Ball. I have a set of Dunlops sitting in the barn waiting to go.
 

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Cool reviews. I really wanted to go this year but just couldnt make it happen. The way u describe the gunner is what I imagined it should be. Only I was hoping for an even lighter bike. The gunner is 650lb, so only 30lb less than the hammer. I too wonder what makes it so much zippier. Maybe different cam or gearing besides the little bit of weight loss?!

Its also possible that it just feels zippier if the suspension is stiffer compared to other vics. This might also explain some of the better handling characteristics.
 

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Thanks for the write up and the insight it gives. I am one more who thought the new Vegas Gunner was just a make over with available skins but now I need to do some test driving. Even a parts bin bike can feel different, as your story tells us.
 

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When you are used to a bike that weighs 800+ and you get on a bike that weighs barely 700 and uses the same engine... Oh yeah, it feels quick and nimble, no doubt about that.

The familiar bike of comparison being a Sportster, which is way down on performance from a 106" Vegas... yeah, that Gunner feels pretty badassed.

A person's perspective is a funny thing.

it is the hardest pulling, best handling Victory made
Same chassis and engine as any Vegas, HighBall, Judge...

Vic's new entry level and lowest cost bike
The Vegas 8-Ball is the lowest priced Victory, not the Gunner.

Vegas 8-Ball:


Gunner ($500 more):


HighBall ($1000 more)


What's different?
Paint
Wheels/tires
Front fender (Same on Gunner and HighBall)
Headlight (Same on Gunner and HighBall)
Handlebars (Same on Gunner and 8-Ball)
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
When you are used to a bike that weighs 800+ and you get on a bike that weighs barely 700 and uses the same engine... Oh yeah, it feels quick and nimble, no doubt about that.

The familiar bike of comparison being a Sportster, which is way down on performance from a 106" Vegas... yeah, that Gunner feels pretty badassed.

A person's perspective is a funny thing.


Same chassis and engine as any Vegas, HighBall, Judge...


The Vegas 8-Ball is the lowest priced Victory, not the Gunner.

Vegas 8-Ball:


Gunner ($500 more):


HighBall ($1000 more)


What's different?
Paint
Wheels/tires
Front fender (Same on Gunner and HighBall)
Headlight (Same on Gunner and HighBall)
Handlebars (Same on Gunner and 8-Ball)
I am not qualified to talk tech on specific stuff like HC. But after putting over 5000 miles on my King Pin with Lloyds ATS, I can say for a fact that my azz is qualified to tell you that it would be no match in a head to head run. Of course your KP is different than mine. I do not know why--- it may be different size tires, different gear ratio (I don't know this--only guessing) The difference in handling may be the tires or maybe the bars--- I don't know. Perspective IS A FUNNY THING. The Vision does not handle like a 1,000 lb bike when it gets to speed---neither does a Goldwing. I think what I felt was a little more than perspective. What I DO KNOW is that I had already made up my mind to NOT be impressed--and when I do that, it is hard to change my mind. (Looks like we may share that personality trait thumb up) HC, I would love for you to try this one on a test ride and give your comments.

On the other hand, I was soooooo wanting to fall in love with the Indian. I bought 2 tee shirts for me and the wife before the test ride. If I had rode it first, I would have saved $40. :eek:
 

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You are the second guy who I have heard say almost the exact same thing... According to Ma Vic nothing has changed engine wise. Goddamn it now I have to go try one after bashing the hell out of it!!!
Don't think mfgs might not juice up a bike destined for reviews. If the engine/air box/pipes/ECU mapping are the same as the Vegas and the Vegas weighs 11 lbs less, the Vegas should outrun the Gunner down a straight.

The Gunner is 23 lbs lighter than a Hammer and doesn't have all the rotational mass of the Hammer so it doesn't surprise me that the Gunner could walk away from Hammer in a contest of straight line speed and run away in anything remotely twisty.

Funny, I see Harley just brought back and old model in what seems to be an attempt to match the Gunner. Me likes the dual front discs and old school paint job. Not so crazy about the cheap suspension and funny looking seat.



They also brought out a nicely appointed Sporty.




I love me some heated competition!
 

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I bet you just hit the nail on the head Bags. If I was Ma Vic my demo machines would be dynotuned to make them sing. Great sales tool for the mfg but unfortunate for the consumer.
 

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2--I have been telling the wife she can get a dog if I get an new Indian. After riding one, I took the offer off the table. I was very under-impressed. The engine and transmission are wonderful, but the bike I rode did not fit my 6'1" 235 lb frame. It was not as cramped as the Sportster, but it was not comfortable to me at all. I was going to ride other models, but it was not worth the wait. It may have been a different seat--this one had a backrest and I was so far forward I could not enjoy it at all. The throttle lag was VERY noticeable to me and a real put off. The transmission is light years ahead of my Vic. The Thunderstroke engine and transmission combo--along with Harley paint mounted on my XR would make my Cross Roads the perfect bike.
So I got to ride the indians this weekend as we had a local demo day. I first hopped on a vintage (bags and shield, no backrest). I found it very refined, smooth, comfortable and exceptional in build quality, not to mention great looking, but kind of dull to ride... so I wasnt sure I wanted to try anything else, cuz I pretty much discounted the brand as geezer magnet. But just as the next ride was rolling out I said what the heck, no one is on that chieftain way in the back of the line, so I hopped on. Turns out, this bike had stage 1 exhaust and an ecu reflash. As I pulled out with the group I was really enjoying the exhaust note. Man it was thunderous but mellow, not HD obnoxious. I also immediately noticed how this bike had a much improved and more usable/predictable power band, as in you could tell clearly where the engine was pulling strong and where it begins to taper off. The first bike didnt have that kind of feel. So now I got the radio on, im playing with the throttle ejoying the power and just rocking out! Now I was having fun, and in such complete comfort that I suddenly though... I could take this across the country and then some, and really enoy it. We did the same 14 mile route on both bikes, and where I came back kind of tired after riding the vintage, riding the chieftain didnt fase me. Maybe even relaxed and rejuvinated me. There is a tad bit more room on the chieftain than the vintage, not by much though, but for me at 6ft 190lb both felt fine. Now, im not going to go buy one, cuz im 31 and not ready to open myself up to cougars, but if I could ride that chieftain again, you bet your behind I would! I really found it smooth, charismatic, hella comfortable and just down right enjoyable. Indian gained my respect after that ride. If u got a medium or large size tshirt u wanna get rid of, i'll rock it! :p

But I do think you should give it another look. thumb up
 

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So I got to ride the indians this weekend as we had a local demo day. I first hopped on a vintage (bags and shield, no backrest). I found it very refined, smooth, comfortable and exceptional in build quality, not to mention great looking, but kind of dull to ride... so I wasnt sure I wanted to try anything else, cuz I pretty much discounted the brand as geezer magnet. But just as the next ride was rolling out I said what the heck, no one is on that chieftain way in the back of the line, so I hopped on. Turns out, this bike had stage 1 exhaust and an ecu reflash. As I pulled out with the group I was really enjoying the exhaust note. Man it was thunderous but mellow, not HD obnoxious. I also immediately noticed how this bike had a much improved and more usable/predictable power band, as in you could tell clearly where the engine was pulling strong and where it begins to taper off. The first bike didnt have that kind of feel. So now I got the radio on, im playing with the throttle ejoying the power and just rocking out! Now I was having fun, and in such complete comfort that I suddenly though... I could take this across the country and then some, and really enoy it. We did the same 14 mile route on both bikes, and where I came back kind of tired after riding the vintage, riding the chieftain didnt fase me. Maybe even relaxed and rejuvinated me. There is a tad bit more room on the chieftain than the vintage, not by much though, but for me at 6ft 190lb both felt fine. Now, im not going to go buy one, cuz im 31 and not ready to open myself up to cougars, but if I could ride that chieftain again, you bet your behind I would! I really found it smooth, charismatic, hella comfortable and just down right enjoyable. Indian gained my respect after that ride. If u got a medium or large size tshirt u wanna get rid of, i'll rock it! :p

But I do think you should give it another look. thumb up
Interesting. I have the same perception in riding my Stage 1 X bike vs stockers.

I also agree with your assessment of the Vintage. Had some nice bits, but while the engine pulled pretty good from a stop, it seemed to fade quick. I've read a couple reviews of the Indian Stage 1 that claimed the HP didn't increase at all. I know it didn't with my Stage 1 either, but it sure seems more lively throughout the powerband.

I am surprised that you found it comfortable. I felt kinda cramped on it and I'm pretty short. I think a Corbin seat would do wonders for it. The seat rise seems to occur farther back on those.

Cougars and Indians...what's wrong with a little nature lovin?
 

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Interesting. I have the same perception in riding my Stage 1 X bike vs stockers.

I also agree with your assessment of the Vintage. Had some nice bits, but while the engine pulled pretty good from a stop, it seemed to fade quick. I've read a couple reviews of the Indian Stage 1 that claimed the HP didn't increase at all. I know it didn't with my Stage 1 either, but it sure seems more lively throughout the powerband.

I am surprised that you found it comfortable. I felt kinda cramped on it and I'm pretty short. I think a Corbin seat would do wonders for it. The seat rise seems to occur farther back on those.

Cougars and Indians...what's wrong with a little nature lovin?
Lol! Haha! I love me some nature, but those cougars can be some feisty dangerous animals!

I was actually thinking the same thing about the power. What if its not more power i felt, but just heard the powerband better which made it easier to utilize?! But they did say the ecu was reflashed, so who knows if theres an extra pony or two there.... all I know, is it really made the whole experience much more enjoyable. :D

Im not at all surprised that u x bike owners find the indians a tigher fitting. I rode a buds cross country after riding the indian, which felt like a stretched limo compared to everything else ive tried so far, so I understand your perspective. Since my daily mount is my vstrom, i personally prefer the indian, because its a smaller but heavier package which makes it a little more stable, just more of a solid and connected feel to it. There was still room for me to move my feet back and forth and wiggle around in the seat on the indean, so I really didnt find it confining, but its quiet possible id prefer the xcountry on a 500 mile day, cuz its just a roomy and smooth bike! Its also possible that with stage 1 exhaust on the xc id get all goose pimply like I did on the chieftain.

Both are clearly great, just the stage 1 indian caught me off guard. So i still say the op should give the chieftain another whirl.
 

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My buddy recently picked up a Chieftrain (his first real pleasure ride was this past weekend) and he explains it this way.
For his purposes; daily commuter and the now-and-then day ride with buddies, he loves his Indian. Full of power and cool doo-dads that make for a fun ride. Smooth as silk and a head turner.
The day he bought his Indian, he also test road a Victory CCT and said that if he were a touring guy, the Victory would be in his garage because of it having so much more room and being more comfortable.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
So i still say the op should give the chieftain another whirl.

I plan to in Myrtle Beach in May. I would have then, but the wait was just worth it at the time. It may have just been the way my bike had been set up.

I will say it again, the engine and tranny on the Indian reminds me a lot of Harley-- but with excellent manners. It is smoother and does not have ANY vibrations. The stock tone has a great sound. The throttle set up is not great--to me anyway. Also, as I said before, I would love to get the Thunder Stroke engine and transmission in my Cross Roads. I think that would be a perfect combo.
 

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Wow, Even Polaris cant make something else in a motorcycle as good as a Cross bike. What would it have taken to make the Indian a little longer and a little deeper in the saddle. Small guys are even feeling cramped on them? Throttle response on a 111 motor should be all around great not disappointing. The after market will surely want to hit on these complaints but who wants to remove a $1000 seat and replace it with a Corbin or a Mustang? tear into a 111 for cams and intake? Not for years. A fuel tuner or ecu piggy back to change throttle response? we'll see. You almost got it Polaris!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
. What would it have taken to make the Indian a little longer and a little deeper in the saddle. Small guys are even feeling cramped on them? Throttle response on a 111 motor should be all around great not disappointing.
Let me clarify a few things. The throttle response is not because of the engine. It is the "drive by wire" electronic throttle system used on cars. I think ALL of Polaris's other models have throttle cables which work fine.

I am not exactly a small guy--6'1" and 223 at the moment (and still loosing) but I think the backrest on the stock seat was a lot of my problem--I hate being pushed forward. However, ALL of the stock X bikes and the Visions fit me perfect.

I also read somewhere they the designers wanted to keep a high riding profile to keep with the older feel of the origional Indians. This may account for the lack of depth in the saddle.
 
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