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Hey guys,

I am the owner of a new 2013 8 Ball, I bought it brand new last month from Hernleys in Elizabethtown PA. Ive been riding since I was 12, ( Ill be 24 soon). Raced motorcross, track days all over the east coast on sportbikes, you name it Ive probably been there, so I consider myself an experienced rider, as well as a Mechanic as that is my profession.

Id just like to get that out there so nobody thinks im new to this.

Anyway,


Within the first 50 miles of a brandnew bike, it shut off on me 4 or 5 times. All of them happen as soon as I pulled in the clutch to downshift. Just shut right off. I took the bike back to the dealer, waited around an hour and was told they found a loose nut on one of the circuits and hopefully it was fixed.

Around a week after that, it has shut off on me several more times, not even 150 miles on the bike yet. Again, each time it happened it was as soon as I pulled the clutch in to down shift. Back to Hernleys.

I took the bike back monday sept 30th. It took over 9 days to get my bike back, as I picked it up October 9th. They told me twice they didnt get a chance to get around to looking at it, and then we had to wait for a part.

I was told they replace the Idle Air Control valve and that, Duane, the owner wanted to talk to me. So we talked, and what he told me was this.

That they went ahead and replaced that part, but it was likely my fault the bike was stalling because;

I AM NOT SUPPOSED TO REV THE BIKE, AT ALL, AS IT CONFUSES THE FUEL INJECTION. DONT REV IT WHEN YOUR SITTING STILL, AND DONT REV IT TO DOWN SHIFT, JUST PULL IN THE CLUTCH AND SHIFT.

Seriously?! I cant rev my bike to down shift??? He said it as if it was a normal thing and no big deal.

Anyway I took the bike home, 15 miles later it has shut off twice, and it is now back firing a good bit, random pops, poor bottom end, as well as throttle responce.

Oddly yesterday while riding I ran into another Vic owner. Bought his bike from the same place, was having similar issues, and got the same story, DONT REV THE BIKE. I thought this was weird.

So today I called two other semi local dealers.

The first I called was not suprised to hear from me, in fact he seemed to know my story before I told it, and said they fixed 8 or 9 bikes, all that were bought from Hernleys within the past few months due to bad service and a rude owner.


He was familiar with my issue and told me that they had seen several fuel injector issues, poor seating of the injector, or bad orings on them. But he said there is no reason at all why I should not be able to rev the engine for down shifts, as we all know thats what you do with any manual gear box.

Also while my bike was at Hernleys the 2nd time it got a nice scratch on the side cover, probably from someones boot as they went to get off the bike. The owner "buffed it out", well guess what, the scratch is still there and he could care less.

So thats my story.

A brand new bike that runs like crap, serveral people from the same dealer with similiar problems and no help from the origial dealer, and were all being told, NOT TO REV THE ENGINE, like its a normal thing for these bikes.

Sorry for the long read, but has anyone had these issues or is aware of a fuel injection issue? This is a real low blow for me as I have a brand new bike that seems to be getting worse and worse with each mile.

Thanks,
Shane
Shane
My bike would stutter all most stall and at times stall if I blipped the throttle at idle.
I always blip the throttle on a down shift. It makes for a clunk less silent shift.
But if I let the rpm get close to idle then blip for the down **** it would at times stall.
I am surprised that if they replaced the idle control valve that it still stalls.

What I tracked mine down to was a lean condition for a split second during the blip. In other words you twist the throttle and lots of air is introduced but there is a lag getting a response from the EFI. So the engine stumbles or stalls....
I blamed the idle air control valve. This thing is an electric motor that opens an air valve to lean the air mixture while cruising. And to lean or richen the air fuel mixture to control idle speed.

I installed the Lloydz air valve http://www.lloydz.com/store/item_view.asp?estore_itemid=1000078
This stops or decreases the leanness caused by the Vic idle air control valve.
My bike has a much crisper throttle response. It doesn't stall any more. But I have herd it sound like it was going to stall. Sort of like a stutter or miss when blipped at adle.

I also added the Lloydz timing wheel and these 2 parts has given me a snappy throttle response and great low end torque.

The funny thing is when I talked to the dealer about this they said there were a few complaints of stalling and throttle hesitation just of idle. And they had good success by installing the stage 1 flash.
My dealer has a demo bike same as mine with the stage 1 flash. So I started it up and blipped the throttle. It didn't stall but was it soft and slow to rev. My bike with Lloydz air valve is much snappier. So I am glad I didn't wast my time with the stage 1 flash.

I know you shouldn't have to add aftermarket parts to get a new bike to run proper. But like you I never herd of such BS not to blip the throttle ....but my dealer told me not to blip the throttle also.... They are hiding a problem.......

The truth is the FI is too slow to compensate for fast throttle movements .

On my last bike a Suzuki c90 - they added a second set of butterflies in the throttle bodies. These butterflies would partially close at low RPMs so when you blipped the throttle the air would be limited until the EFI could catch up and dump fuel. Then they would open up and let full air flow.

Harley has cured this issue by using a ride by wire. The ride by wire opens the throttle slower than you would with a cable. That way they control how fast air enters the engine. This eliminates the big blast of air and the FI dumping fuel in a split second later..
 

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Guys blipping the throttle doesn't mean over revving the motor.
It means you give the throttle a SMALL turn to raise the RPM up JUST ENOUGH to MATCH the the speed of the gear your down shifting too.
NOT revving the engine any higher than necessary to make a nice quiet gear change

FASTFORD90 am I right or wrong..... ???????

On my bike it didn't matter how small or slow you twisted the throttle it would AT TIMES STALL....

And it stalls because it gets a big gulp of air and little to NO FUEL.
Its a lean condition not a rich condition....

ALSO it doesn't matter how hard you rev it blip it chop it IT SHOULD NOT STALL.
If you cant get on the throttle than its a piss poor FI system.. period

They are hiding behind a known issue and they don't want to get caught and have to do a re-call There is a problem with some of these bikes. And it is a dangerous issue

Its time they came forward and fixed the bikes with this problem.

I was sitting in the middle of an intersection - the bike was idling - I get a break in traffic and I give it a small amount of throttle and it shuts off - STALLS....
And the dealer says stop blipping the throttle.... ASHOLES....
 

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robvision:
I had the exact same thing happen twice (once each on different days) just as I was pulling away from a stop sign. Accelerating, not blipping. This is not a "blip only" issue.

However, since I installed the timing wheel, I have not had a single stall...
You are correct. It isn't a blip only issue.
Since I installed the Lloydz parts mine is much better. But there is times I hear it stumble and almost stall. And it's only when you goto raise the RPM from or near idle.
What I do now is raise the RPM just before I get ready to go. For instance just before I am ready to go I sit with the RPM at aprox 1500 then let the clutch out and roll into the throttle.
 

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Wow... just wow... this is embarrassing.

Mentioning blipping the throttle in this place is like saying "Ain't that just like a woman?" in a room full of women. Baffling that a bunch of motorcycle riders don't rev-match downshifts... even more baffling that the first thing they think of is the SouthPark video of the '***' bikers.

Then, we have the grand historian enter the thread to bring up every debate that was ever had in other threads... completely unrelated to this topic of course... for no apparent reason. Of course having nothing to offer on this topic, just ruining the thread for others. I am equally guilty, I imagine, for responding to him.

Now we get the obligatory "you might be a troll" comment, which is completely unfounded.

I apologize for this thread and how it went for ya. I hope you get the bike taken care of.
South Park had an episode of *** bikers................ Now that sounds funny.........
And I missed it.... Crap.....
 

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Semantics... How does one achieve a rev-matched downshift? By giving the throttle A BLIP before you let the clutch back out.

http://www.trackdaymag.com/thementalaspect/283-throttle-blipping-for-downshifts.html

http://www.sportrider.com/ride/rss/146_0402_shift_blip_throttle

The OP is obviously NOT talking about reving the bike in neutral to make noise. He is talking about riding the bike the way an experienced rider does it. Aggressive? No. Proper technique? Yes.

If I gave my throttle a blip and the bike shut off... I can't tell you how pissed off I would be. If it continued to happen I'd have 6 'mother fuckers' a minute coming out of me. It is imperative that the bike respond to throttle input without lag or 'blip failure' (cough back thru the airbox and fail to rev).

If I was told "Don't blip the throttle" I would assume the speaker either 1) didn't know how to ride a motorcycle, or 2) thought I didn't.
Well said
Some don't get it STILL ....
Rev matching blipping who give a f... what you call it. Or even if you do blip just for the hell of it. The bike, any bike that stalls has a problem and I think its time we had a RECALL. Because it sounds like there is a lot more bikes stalling than there should be......

Since I added the Lloydz parts my stalling has ALMOST gone away...
But this morning on the way to work while in traffic approaching a red light riding very slow in the friction on the clutch my bike coughed through the air box and stalled.

Now first thing I did was dump the clutch to see if it would start back up But No... Now that was prob a bad idea because the car behind me almost run into me. I pull the clutch in and it took what seemed like for ever for the bike to start...

I am sitting in the middle of the intersection with a dead bike. The guy behind me is rite on my ASS. I bet the guy thought I was a rookie that stalled the bike.

I was so pissed that it did this cough and stall thing AGAIN that I run it all the way up the road on the rev limiter swearing I was going to blow the piece of **** up and buy a Harley....

THIS NEEDS TO BE RECALLED AND FORCED TO BE REPAIRED....
 

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Robvision, I just read through the list of mods on your bike, based on your signature. With a modified air intake, exhaust, etc., etc., how can you justify blaming Vic when you have a stall issue? Heck your add-ons may just not be playing nice with each other. I have an almost stock engine on my Vision with absolutely no issues after 7400 miles even though I do have a timing wheel which could possibly mess up the bike in ways that I did not anticipate. Time to get back to basics and start looking at the cumulative effect of your mods. Maybe it truly is a Vic problem but how could you ever tell with all of those changes?
You need to read MORE....

The issue of stalling was ALWAYS there.... The dealers are telling us to NOT blip the throttle. This was not a throttle blip stall.

The add ons are a desperation attempt at fixing the problem. Since Mother Vic has the dealers convinced that the stalling issue is RIDER ERROR because we MUST be blipping the throttle and causing our own problem.

If you are VERY lucky to get a bike that works good then you cant understand the FRUSTRATION of spending BIG bucks on a bike that works like ****. And be given bull **** excuses instead of fixing the issue. Then spending more money trying to find a work around.

The dealers are not all to blame as they are just towing the BS line from mother Vic... NOT the way to increase sales and keep a good reputation.

And the real killer is when you read of issues that should have been rectified YEARS AGO......
 

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The only situation I can see where a stall is expected is when the operator screws up starting from a dead stop. Once your moving it should be damn near impossible to stall any bike. For that matter, most modern bikes are near impossible to stall off the line.

If this is a real issue with STOCK bikes (and from what I am hearing it is) then all affected owners who have received the brush off from the dealer (don't blip a Vic) need to file with the NHTSA. This is the only way to get a recall going with Polaris.

Notice how fast Harley got their recent VOLUNTARY hydraulic clutch recall going, even with the Government shutdown??? And what about Harley picking up the affected bikes at no charge? And how's a guaranteed 1 day turn around on the repair sound? And parts are already available? Wow!!!

Sounds like a company that cares about its customers, liabilities, and reputation to me.


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Now your talking

And believe me I love this bike. I want Vic to KICK ASS with there bikes, but I dont see it happening any time soon. There service SUCKS

I have to tell you that if Harley is going to step up and offer service like that .... wow that goes a long way in keeping customers happy.

Think about my pulley deal. I would have to bring my bike in... Find a way to work. Then find a way back to the dealer. If the belt still squeaks. Make another appointment. Get someone to pick me up AGAIN and get to work then back to the dealer. Just fix the damn thing the FIRST TIME.....

And when the Blue Tooth Dongle didn't work it was like they were trying there hardest to blame me. WTF...... It didn't work on there demo bike ether... Piss me off..

Its just not worth the fustration...

I was really intrigued by Indian.... But buy one ..... I don't think so.... Its just to damn frustrating to deal with POLARIS IND.....
 

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I think theres more then we hear about. To many people that just deal with it, look how many threads there are that people have chimed in and said theyve had stalling and hesitating and popping issues on bone stock bikes and either just have dealt with it or have added parts to fix it. Im by no means bashing victory, I love mine, but those people like the OP that are having troubles would have possibly benefitted from the many that have had troubles that should have taken them back in and made it known that there are issues, maybe something would have been done.

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You are very right..... A lot are afraid to rock the boat. Some have issues and dont want to admit to anyone there is a problem. Some believe the BS that are fead them and live with a statement like Vics dont like to be blipped - change your riding style....

I am going to try plugs and maybe different gaps. It seems when it does this it pukes out the intake then stalls. like it hung a valve or something.
 

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Using digital wrench does not give you access to any corporate information. It is a diagnostic software. All you can access online is OEM maps. If you want to load a stage 1 or map other than OEM, you would have to pay for it separately. It is not carte Blanche to access Polaris servers.

You will have to pay for the software, the connection hardware, and also pay for a limited license/authorization to log-in. If it is a diagnostic tool (which is exactly what it is) they are obligated to sell it to you by law. Of course, they are going to charge you an arm, leg, eye, and several teeth... but they'll sell it.
HC
Your bike is heavily modified, what fuel controller are you using?
Also
I don't like fuel controllers that need a map. Is there one out there that would allow you to change the amount of fuel when twisting the throttle from idle. Like a accelerator pump on a old style carb.

I really believe this stall is a poor air/fuel ratio when revving from idle.

FYI
Unplugging the O2s does nothing for stalling on my bike. Did kill my mileage though.... So it seems its not changing (much) just off idle.
 

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I don't think Victory is bad. Yes there are some that were not assembled right or the parts that Vic's suppler made were bad.
I do feel most dealers are bad and there techs are bad. Most techs work on other model bikes and learn as they go. They do not understand what is good for one brand bike is not good for the other.
I'll bet 90% of the techs only get traning when we come in with a problem. There first step is to poke at the bike then call Polaris techs and see what they can tell them.
H-D tech only work on there models they don't work on Honda one hour then Kawasaki the next.
Victory dealers I'm sure don't pay there techs or parts guy to go to school and learn.
Sales men that sell motorcycles are one that couldn't sell cars. I have often wounder when you got out of school you woke up one morning and said my life is going to be selling bikes thats my goal.
I agree
But they need to find out who at Polaris is doing all the BSing to the dealers. Maybe the guy is paid a comision on the amount he saves the company. I know this would be stupid. But I have seen a lot of stupid.......
 

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I run champion RA6HC in mine with good luck, it one step cooler plug but mine seems to like them just a bit better. I also had run RA8GHC which is the cross to the stock ngk, I avoid ngk as much as possible.

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Thanks, good info
I will try and find RA6HC Saturday...

What ever is causing this has me stumped. Since my last stall I have tried everything to get it to stall again. And nothing the bike is running perfect. I been deliberately blipping the crap out of it at every stop.and nothing. The throttle response is crisp and incredibly quick.
So maybe some of this is a miss fire or weak spark.

The other day when it stalled it was stumbling every time I started from a stop. But it worked ok once the RPM was raised. Not bad gas as I fill from a gas can

Today on the way home the roads were wet and I could roll on the throttle and break the tire loose in second. Amazing power and torque. Very strange.
 

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Update
I installed the champion RA6HC plugs.
The old plugs were real black and sooty.

Took it for a ride through an area that has lots of stop signs.
Stopped and when it was my turn to go I gently brought the revs up before letting the clutch out and it popped through the intake and stalled.

This was no blip just a gentle increase in rpm before letting the clutch out.

The crazy thing is now that I have installed the Lloydz parts it doesn't do it often enough to figure out what is causing it. It may not do it again for days. But it usually happens at the worst time possible.
 

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Yes it is very rich V1
I think your right VJ

I have to say though. What I have done has made a huge difference in power and sound.

I am a picky old bastard and get pissed off easy. I am an aggressive rider. I was never impressed with the sound or power of my bike.
But since adding the goodies this bike is so different than it was stock.

The throttle response is impressive. The pull from as low as 2k is massive. And it pulls harder harder until the rev limiter cuts in.

I sure like to know what it's producing compared to the way it was stock.

I drilled the pipes a while back and it didn't sound good. Had cloudy strange sound. But since the add ons that has changed. It has a raspy v-twin sound that I can't get enough of.

I get all pissed at it when it stalls but for a big heavy bike it really hauls ass. And I love riding it. Love the look of it.
And am damn proud to own it.......... (When it doesn't stall)
 

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Hey guys,

I am the owner of a new 2013 8 Ball, I bought it brand new last month from Hernleys in Elizabethtown PA. Ive been riding since I was 12, ( Ill be 24 soon). Raced motorcross, track days all over the east coast on sportbikes, you name it Ive probably been there, so I consider myself an experienced rider, as well as a Mechanic as that is my profession.

Id just like to get that out there so nobody thinks im new to this.

Anyway,


Within the first 50 miles of a brandnew bike, it shut off on me 4 or 5 times. All of them happen as soon as I pulled in the clutch to downshift. Just shut right off. I took the bike back to the dealer, waited around an hour and was told they found a loose nut on one of the circuits and hopefully it was fixed.

Around a week after that, it has shut off on me several more times, not even 150 miles on the bike yet. Again, each time it happened it was as soon as I pulled the clutch in to down shift. Back to Hernleys.

I took the bike back monday sept 30th. It took over 9 days to get my bike back, as I picked it up October 9th. They told me twice they didnt get a chance to get around to looking at it, and then we had to wait for a part.

I was told they replace the Idle Air Control valve and that, Duane, the owner wanted to talk to me. So we talked, and what he told me was this.

That they went ahead and replaced that part, but it was likely my fault the bike was stalling because;

I AM NOT SUPPOSED TO REV THE BIKE, AT ALL, AS IT CONFUSES THE FUEL INJECTION. DONT REV IT WHEN YOUR SITTING STILL, AND DONT REV IT TO DOWN SHIFT, JUST PULL IN THE CLUTCH AND SHIFT.

Seriously?! I cant rev my bike to down shift??? He said it as if it was a normal thing and no big deal.

Anyway I took the bike home, 15 miles later it has shut off twice, and it is now back firing a good bit, random pops, poor bottom end, as well as throttle responce.

Oddly yesterday while riding I ran into another Vic owner. Bought his bike from the same place, was having similar issues, and got the same story, DONT REV THE BIKE. I thought this was weird.

So today I called two other semi local dealers.

The first I called was not suprised to hear from me, in fact he seemed to know my story before I told it, and said they fixed 8 or 9 bikes, all that were bought from Hernleys within the past few months due to bad service and a rude owner.


He was familiar with my issue and told me that they had seen several fuel injector issues, poor seating of the injector, or bad orings on them, so this may be part of my issue, but he said there is no reason at all why I should not be able to rev the engine for down shifts, as we all know thats what you do with any manual gear box.

Also while my bike was at Hernleys the 2nd time it got a nice scratch on the side cover, probably from someones boot as they went to get off the bike. The owner "buffed it out", well guess what, the scratch is still there and he could care less.

So thats my story.

A brand new bike that runs like crap, serveral people from the same dealer with similiar problems and no help from the origial dealer, and im being told, NOT TO REV THE ENGINE, like its a normal thing for these bikes.

Sorry for the long read, but has anyone had these issues or is aware of a fuel injection issue, electronics problem etc etc? This is a real low blow for me as I have a brand new bike that seems to be getting worse and worse with each mile.

Thanks,
Shane
Shane look what I found on another forum

I have had my Cross country tour since march. From the begining it has had a stalling issue. As I was slowing and down shifting the bike would simply shut off. This had happened about twelve to fifteen times in 2500 miles. The shop could not duplicate the problem at the first service. I took it in again last week. Before I did, I contacted Victory customer service. They had not heard of this problem. So they gave me the regional dealership that over sees my area. They thought it might be the injectors leaking. the injector seals or maybe even the intake. They did not have any technical service bulletins but they had heard of the problem. The test showed the seals and intake to be okay. The next idea lead to the clutch switch. Since the stalling happened as I down shifted. The shop replaced the clutch switch and this fixed the problem. Seems simple, but there was never anything definate pointing towards the switch. I think I've read a couple of other people with similar problems of stalling. As I said, this condition was from day one for me. So right from the start it had a bad switch. The computer and trans were not communicating correctly. By the way, I live in Illinois and my regional dealer is in PA.

I have disconnected my clutch switch.
You should disconnect yours. It's a simple plug.

I can't see this as the issue.

Does your bike even have this clutch switch????

There is a bunch of people with this issue. Some have had the issue go away all by its self....
 

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Well I disconnected the clutch switch .....
The damn bike stalled at a four way stop.
I didn't blip I was in first waiting for my turn. I went to bring the RPM up a bit before letting the clutch out and the bike stumbled and stalled. I hit the starter .... Nothing wtf .... Then I remembered I unplugged the switch .... Damn I had to put it in neutral to re start....

Nothing to do with clutch switch......
Disconnected o2 sensors ... No difference... Still stumbles and stalls.

The only thing that helps is to completely close the air flow to the IAC valve and then turning up the idle screw.
Draw back is no more fast idle warm up......

Also
The plugs show I am running rich.. Very rich.. Turning off my fuel controller was great for mileage but low end power fell sharply and worst of all was the stumbling and stalling got real bad.
So I would have to say when you give the bike a bit of throttle from idle, the computer is to slow to add fuel and the bike stumbles and some times stalls. Run it rich and it some times stumbles and my go for days with no stall.
 

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The screw you adjusted as your idle screw i dont believe is suppose to be messed with.

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There is 3 screws
One is the idle
The other 2 are for balancing the cyl. Same as you would balance a carb bike.

If your IAC (idle air control) valve is working you will not be able to lower your rpm with the idle screw. The computer will just open the AIC valve and add air to increase the idle. That screw is to stop the air butterflies in the throttle body from closing completely and damaging the throttle body.....
But
Install Lloydz adjustable idle air control valve and shut off the flow of air to the bikes AIC so the bike runs richer at idle and you will have to adjust the idle screw just to get the bike to idle......

By not allowing the computer to add air at idle, my bike doesn't stumble or stall when raising the rpm from idle.

Now how do I get this info to someone at Victory that can make use of it to come up with a cure ??????????????????????
 

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The screw you adjusted as your idle screw i dont believe is suppose to be messed with.

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I just noticed your sig pic said you removed cats.....
Did you do that before or after the thrush mod....?

Did you get a cleaner Vtwin sound after removing the cats... I was thinking they must really kill the exhaust flow. The Vic's seem to have a strange exhaust note and I was thinking it's the cats ....

What is your opinion ?
 

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I did the thrush mod first and the cats later, i noticed almost no sound difference without the cats.

is there a way to check the sync on these, like a carb bike?

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On my c90 I connected my mercury sync tool to the port for the map sensors.
I didn't look that close on the Vic. I was testing for the stall issue so I adjusted by ear. I wanted to adjust it more to the front then the back to see how it responded.
Then I just set it for the best idle.

But there must be a front and rear map sensor. That would be the place to T into..
 

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And BOTH dealers within half an hour drive ,are GREAT!
Wow 3 Vic's
I think you used all your luck. Don't bother buying lottery tickets.....lol

If you read the posts with an open mind you see the problem is more prevalent due to the amount of people that tow the line (don't blip a Vic). It's almost like a religious believe and so it's not questioned......
But in fact it's saying Vic's FI system is not as good as the other bikes so just don't do it....
Instead of finding the problem.....

And it don't have access to Lloydz here in Canada.....
 

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