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The OP is not riding a 2 stroke or a top fuel dragster, nor are the folk cruising down the highway. For all of us...including the OP, OEM plugs are what is best suited for his ride. I'm not sure why some folk insist on going waaaay out in left field with 2 stroke engines and extreme racing engines to try and find something that MAY need a spark plug swapped. I'd bet LLoyd uses OEM plugs in a big bore, supercharged Vic. He may or may not add MSD coil and wires. The OP asked a question and I believe I gave the correct answer. My answer is based on my experience which is quite a lot. I wouldn't rely on most forum members "verifying" much in regards to the topic. Honestly, it doesn't matter to me how many years they been doing it because unless they were doing it in a professional shop for quite some time, my experience has probably passed them by. I don't say that to be rude and I mean nobody here any disrespect. I chose mechanics as my profession and I've done it day in and day out. I've probably diagnosed more performance issues in one single year than most have in a lifetime. That kind of experience you just can't get in a back yard. I point to LLoyd and Rylan as examples, these two guys work on Vics day in and day out. While they are probably young enough to be the grandsons of many members on here, these guys have passed each of us by and they know more about these bikes than all of us, including myself, will ever know. Again, because they do it professionally, every single day. I'm not saying that I won't ever be wrong regarding engine performance and engine repair (which is my area of expertise) but it'll take somebody of some legit credentials to sway me.

I hope this doesn't get interpreted wrong as I don't intend on ruffling anybody's feathers. I don't want a forum argument. cheers
I answered originallyOEM plugs if you look back.
What oldman47 said about plug heat ranges is 100% correct.
I also know exactly what Im talking about.
No need for great long posts about how good I am.
I like to keep it simple.
Spark plug science is the same basics from lawn mower to Top Fuel and everywhere in between.
Forums are a hive of misinformation on spark plugs and the job they perform.
 

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I answered originallyOEM plugs if you look back.
What oldman47 said about plug heat ranges is 100% correct.
I also know exactly what Im talking about.
No need for great long posts about how good I am.
I like to keep it simple.
Spark plug science is the same basics from lawn mower to Top Fuel and everywhere in between.
Forums are a hive of misinformation on spark plugs and the job they perform.
Yep, you sure did say OEM in your first reply.

Nobody said what oldman mentioned is wrong. Well, I kinda did at first but because I thought he was referring to spark heat...that was only a misunderstanding which was communicated once he explained his answer.

What has me scratching my head is all of the discussion of 2 stroke and racing engines. I simply don't get it. None of us run either. :confused: Why even bring them and their spark plugs into the topic? Oldman was basically saying that on a 2 stroke you'd have to find a hotter plug to burn off oil to keep it from fouling. Okay, wonderful...again, what does that have to do with the OP question or my reply? We don't run 2 stroke and that doesn't apply to our modern engines be it a car or a bike. If any fouling occurs on the OEM plugs in our modern engines, be it a car or a bike, it comes down to engine performance issues NOT a different plug. My interpretation of yours and oldman's replies, were that it in some cases on our bikes, a plug swap would be needed. If I'm correct in that interpretation, I'd say you're wrong. If that wasn't the point you were trying to make then what in the world are ya'll going on about??
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Hi All,
Sorry for not getting involved I was working (sometimes we must do that, ha ha )
If I would know it would end-up in bickering then I would not have asked the question.....

Result is when my bike was completely stock, the plugs were WHITE this meant HOT in my thinking.

So all the upgrades as per my signature I DIDN'T do to be the fasted Victory in Indonesia, but merely to get more Fuel & Air into the engine, and getting the plugs nice and grey or brown

The ORIGINAL plugs I took out are DCPR6E & the new plugs I inserted are DCPR6E..... so after reading all the comments I will just stay with the same number.....

See website; http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/technical_regulations/5264/fia.html
in Formula 1 every spark-plug has a pressure sensor, to "read" an average combustion pressure & temperature.... 5.8 Electrical systems:
5.8.1 Ignition is only permitted by means of a single ignition coil and single spark plug per cylinder. The use of plasma, laser or other high frequency ignition techniques is forbidden.

This means F1 wants & developed different kind of spark plugs to make the engine run faster but are not allowed

But we run a normal engine so guess stock plugs are good enough?

Thanks for all the good input to make the right decision.
 

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If you posted a picture of your plug we could better understand. There is a fairly wide range of "acceptable" ranging from dark to light. But there is too dark and too light. There are spark plug color charts on the net that may help you. But to be more accurate, you'd actually need an air/fuel ratio gauge. Some recommend a plug chop (get the bike to the desired gear and throttle position then hit the kill switch and pull the clutch in) but that's really not accurate either. When you look at a plugs color, you're mostly looking at the condition at which point you shut the bike off. The problem with plug chop is you're only looking at that one instance when you shut the bike off. It could be spot on at that time but you could be far too lean at idle and far to rich at full throttle or any combination of those throughout the throttle range and load. To be closer to accurate using plug chop you'd have to do it several times in several different conditions which is going to require tons of time and lots of labor. Easiest way is an AF gauge so you can see it live through all the conditions you ride in which will pinpoint where you need adjustments. Most common tuners on this forum is the PCV but there is a fairly new wave going for the AFR+ which for the do it in your back yard tuner, may be the way to go. This tuner comes with the gauge and allows you to make adjustments on the fly with a push of a button. You can dial it in to near spot on in just minutes. No more looking at plugs and doing 100 plug chops and 100 adjustments to get you close. Aside from a dyno tune, this will be the easiest and most accurate way to get it right.

http://www.afrplus.com/Cruiser/viewproduct.asp?partnumber=712014
 

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F-1 cars make 400 HP per liter.
Your bike makes 48 HP per liter.

Yeah, you REALLY NEED Formula 1 technology to light the candles in that Victory...

I asked Lloyd if I should get the MSD coils/wires when I built the 110. He said "No benefit. Don't waste your money on that".

If I had a turbo, supercharger, or 14:1 compression I might look into a hotter spark. Outside that, it's not like we're running 'points and condenser' ignition systems here, fellas.


No more looking at plugs and doing 100 plug chops and 100 adjustments to get you close. Aside from a dyno tune, this will be the easiest and most accurate way to get it right.
No one tunes by plug reading any more...
Guys like you and me can seat-of-the-pants tune then check the plugs to verify we're not too close to the edge as a final check... but most of the guys reading this wouldn't have a prayer at tuning like that or even know what A/F to shoot for if they had a gauge. For most of these guys it's their first time venturing into 'tuning' and it's going to take some studying (no offense to anyone).
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Half Crazy,

Correct you are; when I ordered everything with Conquest he said exactly the same about the ignition coils...

The F1 remark was just for INFO not needed another discussion point out of it


Rebel Biker

I am happy how the bike is set-up, outstanding is the autotuner and AirFuel ratio as NO dyno here.....

no need for pictures of plugs.... I have all the Toyota books as I used to do some serious jungle tracking with my old Toyota's rebuilding the engines etc....

and after bolting on the upgrades I never took out the plugs again, didn't see the point in that....
 

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There was a time when plugs really did make a difference but that day has passed.
Today as long as they are the correct heat range and in good enough condition to be able to fire on demand all is good.
But since it once was an issue there are a lot of manufacturers willing to cash in on what once was and isn't now.

The root cause of the problem was ignition systems vastly inferior to what we have as standard equipment today.
When Bosch introduced fine wire platinum's way back when, they were a real benefit for those who were stuck with point ignition systems because of design issues, race rules or just plain costs.

The fine wire electrode allowed the under powered points ignitions to fire this plug at the lower voltage the points produced, in the higher compression, higher performance motors that were emerging. Those conditions cause conventional large electrode plugs to become intermittent due to higher voltage requirements just as voltage fell off at high rpm with a points and capacitor ignition.

Often changing to a set of bosch platinum plugs would be enough to allow the motor to continue to fire to redline. Sometimes adding 2-3000 rpm to what was attainable with conventional plugs.
People attributed this to the plug but it was really the voltage available through the ignition that was the problem.

I built a motor once just like this. That is why I am aware of this problem.

As a bonus the platinum tip allowed you to get reasonable life out of the plug as installed so anyone could use them, even in your daily driver.


At the time all this was huge because if you wanted a hot reliable spark you needed room for a magneto , some way to drive it, and rules that allowed it or a very expensive semi reliable aftermarket electronic ignition that might not even exist for the engine you were building.

So the myth of a better plug was born when really it was a band-aid for a weak ignition systems of the age.

I have a 2 engine design engineering books that I have picked up over the years one by Taylor, the other by Recardo .
Both authors agree that a spark plug is a very insignificant part of a motor. These guys pretty much invented the modern high speed internal combustion engine. No amount of money was spared in the research that they did.
To sum up what they found, as long as it sparks when needed and is the proper heat range it has no further part in performance, in itself that is.
Placement in the combustion chamber, etc different story.
Those things you will not change by changing brands of plugs or wires etc.
 

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On my prior bike, a Suzuki Burgman 650, I replaced the stock plugs with NGK Iridium plugs. It was my understanding that these would last longer, is the only reason I used them.

I did this switch to iridium at c. 31,000 on that scoot. The stockers actually looked OK, but I never wanted to do that again: you have to remove a lot of stuff on the bike, get the radiator out of the way, cut your hands on the radiator fins a few times, etc. I didn't notice any performance change, but my strategy did work: I sold the bike without ever having to do that again (although I admit it was before I put another 31K miles on it).

So, a question for those of you who actually know this stuff: not that it's a big deal to change plugs on a Vic, but will using iridium plugs increase the interval between plug changes (because the metal lasts longer, or something)?
Er, um, bump.

I expect to hit 30,000 miles this year, and so my question still remains: will using an NGK iridium plug mean that I can skip plug replacement at 60,000 miles, e.g., go to c. 100K or beyone for my next change?

I realize that changing plugs is not a whole lot of work on the Vic, but if I can skip some intervals, I'd just as soon skip them. Being able to skip a change or two also means one or two fewer opportunities to cross-thread a plug or do something else dumb (which I've occasionally done).

BTW, I use 30K because that's the interval that Vic specifies. I suppose I could just ignore that, too, because I have no plans to replace the final-drive belt then, which is also what Vic says (and I do look at the belt from time to time, and it looks fine).
 
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Will the iridium plugs last longer, absolutely. Iridium plugs are seeing life in the range of 100,000 miles, some more some less. The most important question is will your Vic run just as good with it as the OEM style? That's the point I've been trying to make, it's been my experience that making that change negatively affects the engine's performance. It will last longer but this engine, it's spark, it's placement was designed with our OEM plug in mind. It's a perfect match. If you change that, the engine may not be as happy. A few have swapped and claim they have good results. In the shop, when a plug was changed from OEM I almost always seen a drop in performance.

Your dollars and you can take the gamble if you want. It's not a lot of dollars and it's not a lot of labor.
 

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Will the iridium plugs last longer, absolutely. Iridium plugs are seeing life in the range of 100,000 miles, some more some less. The most important question is will your Vic run just as good with it as the OEM style? That's the point I've been trying to make, it's been my experience that making that change negatively affects the engine's performance. It will last longer but this engine, it's spark, it's placement was designed with our OEM plug in mind. It's a perfect match. If you change that, the engine may not be as happy. A few have swapped and claim they have good results. In the shop, when a plug was changed from OEM I almost always seen a drop in performance.

Your dollars and you can take the gamble if you want. It's not a lot of dollars and it's not a lot of labor.
RB: first of all, thanks for responding to my question.

I think I understand what you're saying. That said, I had assumed -- yeah, I know, that may be a problem -- that iridium plugs just might be different from stockers only in that they last longer, i.e., in that they won't change heat ranges or spark duration or placement or anything else along those lines.

NGK's description ( http://ngksparkplugs.com/products/spark_plugs/iridiumix.asp?mode=nml ) is not all that helpful in this regard:

Designed specifically for the performance enthusiast. Iridium IX® offers extreme ignitability, improved throttle response and superior anti fouling

It's not clear to me whether all these alleged benefits are versus other companies' plugs, or compared to NGK's own plugs.

Since the Vic shop manual specifies NGK DCPR6E plugs, and NGK's web site specifies both DCPR6E (i.e., the standard plug) and DCPR6EIX (i.e., their iridium plug) for the Vic 1731cc engine, I was thinking that either would be acceptable (despite NGK's marketing-hype language), and perhaps approved by Vic, as well.

So, while I wouldn't want to mess with success in terms of substituting something that the engine wasn't designed to take, I was just wondering whether the only real change here -- given the same brand and model number -- would only involve longevity, if iridium were used.
 

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I have a related question too,
Does Victory use a ignition based knock detector using feedback from the plugs to alter the engine management, as some vehicles do?
Anyone know?
 

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I have a related question too,
Does Victory use a ignition based knock detector using feedback from the plugs to alter the engine management, as some vehicles do?
Anyone know?
No. Vic engines don't have knock sensors.
 

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How did you find the size u needed cuz i went on the website and they said they dont have em for a 2015 victory gunner XD
It looks as if the Gunner takes the same plugs -- DCPR6E -- as my (long since sold) XCT; see my post #51, above.

If you go to Part Finder | NGK Spark Plugs and enter 2015 / Victory / Gunner in the drop-down choices, that's what you wind up with. (I am not familiar with the XD designation of Gunners, but since there's no extra choice that mentions "XD," I'll assume that that doesn't matter.)
 

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It looks as if the Gunner takes the same plugs -- DCPR6E -- as my (long since sold) XCT; see my post #51, above.

If you go to Part Finder | NGK Spark Plugs and enter 2015 / Victory / Gunner in the drop-down choices, that's what you wind up with. (I am not familiar with the XD designation of Gunners, but since there's no extra choice that mentions "XD," I'll assume that that doesn't matter.)
I just did it and all its giving me is ngk plugs
 

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I just did it and all its giving me is ngk plugs
I’m sorry if I missed something here. Are NGK plugs unacceptable to you for some reason?
 

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I’m sorry if I missed something here. Are NGK plugs unacceptable to you for some reason?
No im sry if i missed something, cuz i replied cuz you said you had got the E3 plugs for your victory and i couldnt find the E3 plugs on there website for my victory, i have no problem with the ngk, i didnt kno about ngk plugs till this morning lol or any of the brands till this morning. Ive actually leaned more to the ngk since i was doin research
 

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What plugs were you chaps using for the past 7 years this thread was idle? Asking for a friend.
 
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