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Discussion Starter #1
Although the basis here is Blending Synthetic and Mineral oils, further down applies to all oils.

The effect depends on the types of synthetic bases that were mixed with mineral bases. Polyalphaolefin and diester synthetic bases can be mixed with mineral oil bases, which is done regularly to create “blend” products.

Polyalkylene glycol (PAG) bases should not be mixed with any of the others unless specialized barrier fluids are used to minimize the incompatibility. When PAGs are mixed into other lubricants, you typically will get strong negative reactions (producing sludge and tacky residue) that require extra effort to flush, clean and correct.

Even if the base oils are compatible, there is the prospect that the additives used to create necessary performance properties could conflict, producing lost lubricant effectiveness.

It is advisable to perform filterability, oxidation stability, air release and demulsibility testing prior to mixing lubricant intentionally.

Remember, modern lubricants are sophisticated products, formulated to meet the demanding lubrication requirements of modern equipment. The old saying, “oil is oil” no longer applies. Mixing lubricants is fraught with danger — to your equipment, to your business and to your wallet. When in doubt, don’t mix different lubricants. If it occurs accidentally, address the problem immediately.

In its mildest form, mixing different lubricants may lead to a degradation of lubricant performance. Mixing the same API grades of synthetic passenger car motor oil and mineral oil-based engine oil won’t damage the engine, but you will lose the performance features you expect from the synthetic. At the other end of the spectrum, Deposits may form that could increase wear and plug filters.

Bob
 

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That amsoil must be some special oil!
 

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Even if the base oils are compatible, there is the prospect that the additives used to create necessary performance properties could conflict, producing lost lubricant effectiveness.

In its mildest form, mixing different lubricants may lead to a degradation of lubricant performance. Mixing the same API grades of synthetic passenger car motor oil and mineral oil-based engine oil won’t damage the engine, but you will lose the performance features you expect from the synthetic. At the other end of the spectrum, Deposits may form that could increase wear and plug filters.

Bob
Can you cite an example of two oil additives that could "conflict" where the result is "lost lubricant effectiveness" or wear inducing "deposits?"
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Oil formulations today, are a careful balance of additives.

If a high concentration of an anti-wear agent is added to the oil,
the corrosion inhibitor may become less effective. The result may be an increase in corrosion-related problems.

Another example of additive balance would be Silicone. Silicone is used in some oils as an Anti-Foaming agent. Too little and it is ineffective, too much on the other hand will create foaming of the oil.

The whole point is: If you do't know exactly how each additive will effect another, you should not blend them. All oils are not built the same.

Just like medicines which is why they have a "Drug Interaction Chart"

Bob
 

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If a high concentration of an anti-wear agent is added to the oil,
the corrosion inhibitor may become less effective. The result may be an increase in corrosion-related problems.
So let's say Brand X has a 5% concentration of anti-wear agent and Brand Y has a 10% concentration. Mixing them 50/50 would yield a 7.5% concentration. Since this is a lower concentration than Brand Y alone, I can't see how it would effect the corrosion inhibitors. And they too would be averaged out in the mix.

Now I'll agree that perhaps brand Y is better than brand X at anti wear and mixing the two yields a solution that is less effective than brand Y alone, but it certainly isn't going to be any worse than brand X alone. And brand X is probably way better than good enough anyway.

Another example of additive balance would be Silicone. Silicone is used in some oils as an Anti-Foaming agent. Too little and it is ineffective, too much on the other hand will create foaming of the oil.
Same thing as above.

Just like medicines which is why they have a "Drug Interaction Chart"
To the contrary, medicines are different chemical concoctions that can react in a human body and cause unintended consequences. Oils are essentially the same. Sure one company uses a little more of this or that in their formulation, but it isn't like one is using acids and the other using bases that will neutralize and become water and salt.

I read and enjoyed your white paper on oils. And it does seem like yours is about as good a product as is out there. And I can see that adding some other lesser brand to your own might dilute some of the
benefits, but I can't think of anything that would interact to cause chemical reaction that would alter the oil into solids or neutralize an additive.

I've used numerous auto oil in a bunch of motorcycles that ran for tens of thousands of miles with no problems. Now is that as much protection as your brand? Prolly not. But did the engines seize up and die? Only once. :eek:

Actually, that engine was a Kawasaki ZRX1200 that shed a couple of its cylinder linings at 14k miles. I had them replated and ran it another 20k miles without any issues. And I continued to blend auto oils. I don't think the oil had anything to do with the shoddy plating that fell off.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
You are trying way to hard to justify this and assuming that all oils use the same additives.

"But did the engines seize up and die? Only once." Once isn't enough? You do not have the testing facilities to make the stand "I never had a problem" or to be able to tell what is actually happening inside of the engine.

There are more than 1 or 2 additives compounded to do a certain job and there is a fine balance to make them work.

An oil can contain upwards of 25% additives to have it perform the task at hand. An engine will not survive for long if an oil with no additives is used.

Oil Blending is a science which is best left to the professionals.

Bob
 

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Discussion Starter #9
"To the contrary, medicines are different chemical concoctions that can react in a human body and cause unintended consequences. Oils are essentially the same."

I guess we have a problem with comprehension. This is not the 60's or 70's as that statement is far from beng true.

By your statement, you can use the same oil in a 2008 Diesel pickup as a 2006 Diesel pickup with the same engine as long as it is the 15W-40 spec.

Bob
 

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"But did the engines seize up and die? Only once." Once isn't enough?
Actually, now that I think about it, it was twice. The plating on my chrome rockers flaked off on my Ducati too. That was a well known problem with those outsourced parts and Ducati covered all expenses of replacing them even though it happened a year or more after my two year warranty had expired. They were a stand up company in every respect IMHO.

The issue on the Kaw happened just after the warranty had expired and they absolved themselves of any responsibility. Still, I could have the entire engine overhauled on that thing for less than the cost of Victory chrome gremlin bell.
 

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I guess we have a problem with comprehension. This is not the 60's or 70's as that statement is far from beng true.
You may be 100% correct, but you have yet to provide one example of two motorcycle oils that contain SPECIFIC chemicals that are known to chemically react.
 

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Still, I could have the entire engine overhauled on that thing for less than the cost of Victory chrome gremlin bell. :confused::confused:

Now that sounds a little bit like something politician would say.:ltr:
 

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Discussion Starter #13
You may be 100% correct, but you have yet to provide one example of two motorcycle oils that contain SPECIFIC chemicals that are known to chemically react.
You have yet to provide anything but rhetoric to show what I have posted from an International Lubrication publication, which I subscribe to, is wrong.

You have yet to answer my question about the use of the same oil in two similar vehicles.

Bob
 

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You have yet to provide anything but rhetoric to show what I have posted from an International Lubrication publication, which I subscribe to, is wrong.
I never claimed that (you) it was wrong. I claimed that you (they) haven't demonstrated any actual chemical interactions to substantiate your contention.

You have yet to answer my question about the use of the same oil in two similar vehicles.
I don't know a thing about diesels. Hell, I don't know a whole lot about gas engines, but I do know I've used a variety of oils in a whole lot of them without an issue. Guess I should learn more though:

http://www.ducati.com/media_gallery/monster_diesel/378690/index.do
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The point here was not to give specifics as it would take weeks of research but an example would be Rotella and AMSOIL. And I am only using those two as I am familiar with them.

If you were to blend those two, you would not just reduce the effectiveness of AMSOIL but, the additive packs are at two ends of the spectrum and could possibly cause problems such as sludge and/or increased wear and shorten the effective life of the oil.

The question about diesels is because you said "all oils are basically the same" and it was an easy place to show just how terribly wrong that statement is.

Many people have the idea that "I've used XYZ oil for years and..." and the truth is, all they used that was the same is the name. There is not a Top brand of oil on the market that is formulated the same as it was 3 years ago and some just in the last few months.

Bob
 

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If you were to blend those two, you would not just reduce the effectiveness of AMSOIL but, the additive packs are at two ends of the spectrum and could possibly cause problems such as sludge and/or increased wear and shorten the effective life of the oil.
When you say "blend," are you referring to leaving some old brand X oil in the engine and filling it with new oil of brand Y as would be the case whenever you change oil? Or are you talking about trying to mix a batch of something to get the best characteristics out of the two? I've been referring to the former, but now I'm thinking you are referring to the latter.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Actually both.

The latter is definitely not recommended unless a situation arises where you must put oil in to make it home. Then, as the article refers to, change as soon as possible.

In the case of switching to AMSOIL, which is capable of 2X OEM interval in a bike, I recommend a shorter 1st time change of only 50% further. After that, 2X interval provided the AMSOIL filter is used.

Bob
 

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Actually both.

The latter is definitely not recommended unless a situation arises where you must put oil in to make it home. Then, as the article refers to, change as soon as possible.

In the case of switching to AMSOIL, which is capable of 2X OEM interval in a bike, I recommend a shorter 1st time change of only 50% further. After that, 2X interval provided the AMSOIL filter is used.

Bob
Bob, I am considering the change to Amsoil due to my past experience with their products as positive. My concern is that my dealer is telling me NO!!! dont do it! Vic oil is engineered for these bikes and it has the effect of absorbing heat better blah blah. Yet he stocks Amsoil in his shop! for what? I guess atv's. I never liked blended oils or semi synthetic oil. Like drinkin lite beer:crzy:

My questions are : Is his statement true? What advantages will I see with Amsoil 10w40? Will my Victory 106 motor quiet down internally? Shift smoother? Can Victory deny a warranty claim due to the change?

Most Important is that I am looking for a noticeable change. When I switched to Royal Purple (sorry)in my VTX. I noticed it in shifting smoothness and the bike just ran better and cooler. My rad fan was coming on 1/2 as much. Pleas take all the time you need to explain cause I'm tired of searching this thread for these answers.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Here are some answers from someone whos has built, owned operated and sold 3 shops and managed several others (Me).

Bob, I am considering the change to Amsoil due to my past experience with their products as positive. My concern is that my dealer is telling me NO!!! dont do it! Vic oil is engineered for these bikes and it has the effect of absorbing heat better blah blah. Yet he stocks Amsoil in his shop! for what? I guess atv's. I never liked blended oils or semi synthetic oil. Like drinkin lite beer.

If they are saying you can Only use Vic oil or it will void warranty, they are breaking the law just for starters. Vic oil is not "engineered" for Vic and the blah, blah, blah is just that, blah, blah, blah.

My questions are : Is his statement true? What advantages will I see with Amsoil 10w40? Will my Victory 106 motor quiet down internally? Shift smoother? Can Victory deny a warranty claim due to the change?

I will answer this partly with a question: I sell to Vic owners on this forum. Do you see any of my customers on here saying AMSOIL doesn't work? ... What can you expect. Cooler oil temps which directly effects engine temp, smoother shifting, smoother clutch action, fewer false neutrals, easier to find neutral, more HP and better fuel mileage.

Warranty CANNOT be denyed for using any product which meets their Specs. AMSOIL Exceeds these specs.


Most Important is that I am looking for a noticeable change. When I switched to Royal Purple (sorry)in my VTX. I noticed it in shifting smoothness and the bike just ran better and cooler. My rad fan was coming on 1/2 as much. Pleas take all the time you need to explain cause I'm tired of searching this thread for these answers.
Absolutely correct on cooler running! On my Harley Ultra Classic, I took it on the "Cades Cove Loop" in TN which is an 11 mile Loop at 5 MPH. Factory fill oil, 95 degree Ambient temp and oil temps at 308 which is cooking and killing the oil. When I switched to AMSOIL, same ride, oil temp maxxed out at 275. Also, with the factory oil and those temps, the rear cylinder started to misfire and the engine heat was cooking me alive where we could feel the cooler temps with AMSOIL and no misfire.

Other customers have related the same results as you with the fan, especially a couple guys who rode with some of their buddies. Sitting at a stoplight in city traffic, they noticed their fans coming on less than their buddies with identical bikes.

Another benefit will be the extended drain interval over OEM recommended.

If I didn't answer all your questions, please feel free to direct them to me


Oil, is the Life Blood of your engine. The oil filter, is the Kidney that keeps it clean.

Bob
 

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Oil, is the Life Blood of your engine. The oil filter, is the Kidney that keeps it clean.
My bike needs a complete blood transfusion and kidney replacement, every 5,000 miles! Grrrr :mad:
 
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