Victory Motorcycle Forum banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
209 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
was wondering about alternate replacements to the Victory (Polaris) brand in my '09 Vision 106/6 motor. I had some left over Hiflo 303 filters from my last bike that will fit but are about 1" shorter. Is there only the issue of capacity? I know there is another Hiflo 198 that is supposed to be the replacement.
Would there be any things like pressure relief , flow capacity, or cooling that would suggest this is not a good idea?
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
12,984 Posts
You should go to Hi Flow web site and read up on that filter.
Not sure why you would ask us when you can get it right from the horses mouth sort of speak.
I use Wix a long with a couple of hundred other Vic owners
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,185 Posts
I tell ya, I pulled my K&P filter the other day to remove the stock headers, and that magnet on the filter just plain works. Been pleased with it. I believe the oil is flowing better and the filter is super easy to clean and maintain. It gets my vote.


Sent from Motorcycle.com Free App
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
246 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,950 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,414 Posts
I am using a K&P model S-1. It is the listed model for all Victory engines.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
216 Posts
K&P

Anyone else got any thoughts about the K&P ? I like the idea but I think ill start changing my oil every 2500 miles just to get my moneys worth out of it. And those COOL looking dip sticks that witchdoctors sells. IM always going to be buying something I get the feeling.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
209 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I wonder weather there's really a cost savings or a cooler motor with the K&P unit.
Not saying there couldn't be but there's no before /after temperature comparison test to substantiate the claim. It would seem the amount of time the oil spends in the filter is insignificant enough to radiate any heat. However adding mass that is the makeup of the filter should absorb and eliminate some but significantly enough to claim... idk.:confused:
How many regular filter vs k/p oil changes would it take to recover initial expense? You're using brake cleaner and occasional replacement O-rings in exchange for a regular filter. Some savings per change but $200? Would take 10 years to see the cost benefit. The performance and/or longevity benefits can't be seen for some time til identically used motors are disassembled and compared using both methods.
Then there's the added time to clean the filter and who's to say it's really clean and you don't put contaminants back into the motor?
Ha, I'll prolly end up getting one anyway someday.:crzy:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,414 Posts
The biggest thing I see with the K&P is the way it flows better than most filters. I ride when ti gets cold out and think a better flowing filter under extreme low temperature conditions might get me some oil to bearings quicker. You will likely never recover the cost compared to regular filter changes. The darned thing is expensive. Not many people own a bike for enough miles to do that many oil changes. Another benefit I see is no more filters in the local landfill.(Yes I have been accused of being a tree hugge.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
209 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
The tree hugger comment came to my mind but we're driving bikes that get maybe 40 mpg not 60 mpg so can adding more to the carbon footprint still label one even if they don't add filters to a landfill. Now I'm splitting hairs :eek:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,397 Posts
Wix aka Vic filter

use Wix + Amsoil 20-50. those "cleanable' filters do not IMO get the finer particles that can damage your engine + how clean do you really get them? with Vic's high oil pressure very filtering is possible while giving a good oil supply. racing engines are rebuilt often + very high oil flow prolly helps cooling as well, your choice for sure
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
Just because an oil filter will screw on and seal does not mean it will work on your bike. Oil by pass valves have different settings for different bikes, some have anti flow back valves that others do not.

Also oil filters have an inverse relationship between single pass efficiency and restriction. A filter that strains too much may be very efficient but restrict oil flow to the point that the by pass valve kicks in. On the other hand a oil filter that allows maximum flow of oil will not effectively clean your oil. There is a trade off.

Finally outside of a lab you are just guessing if you think one filter or another is more efficient, or has better oil flow. You just can not know by looking at a filter or the media. If a manufacturer specifies a filter for your bike it meets the OEM requirements. Don't just guess if a filter works on your bike. Trust the engineers. BTW there aren't that many filter makers, but they use lots of different paints and logos on the filters they make.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
12,984 Posts
All filters have to undergo SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) tests to prove that they meet the engine manufacturer's requirements. The SAE J806 test uses a single-pass test, checking for contaminant holding capacity, size of contaminant particles trapped, and ability to maintain clean oil. As an amendment of the J806 test, the multi-pass test also looks for filter life in hours, contaminant capacity in grams, and efficiency based on weight. The efficiency of the filter is determined only by weight through gravimetric measurement of the filtered test liquid. Typical numbers for paper filter elements are 85% (single pass) and 80% (multi-pass). A new test, the SAE J1858, provides both particle counting and gravimetric measurement to measure filter capacity and efficiency. Actual counts of contaminant particles by size are obtained every 10 minutes, both upstream (before the filter) and downstream (after the filter), for evaluation. From this data filtration ratio and efficiency for each contaminant particle size can be determined as well as dust capacity and pressure loss as a function of time. Typical numbers for paper element filters are 40% at 10 microns, 60% at 20 microns, 93% at 30 microns, and 97% at 40 microns. This means a paper filter passes about 25 times as many 30 micron particles as a Pure One. I would love to see these numbers for the various available filters, but no one seems to be talking
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
12,984 Posts
There's a new type of filter being marketed, the "laser cut stainless steel filter," which we're told is "good for the life of your vehicle."

These filters typically have 35-40 micron holes, which is really not acceptable. They typically have 30-40 square inches of filter material, which is really not acceptable. A paper based element is a 3 dimensional filter - when a particle gets stuck deep in the filter element, oil can still flow around it. The stainless steel elements are 2 dimensional - when a particle gets caught, one of the holes is clogged up.

I don't see how you can assure that all the holes get cleared out when you clean these. Certainly simply soaking the filter in kerosene is not going to release particles that have been jammed into a hole at 60psi. Blowing the filter out with air sounds good, but a motorcycle filter is too small to let an air hose inside.

These stainless steel filters cost about $120, about 25 times what I pay for a Pure One. Since I use my filters for about 8,000 miles, that means I have to go 200,000 miles to break even. I've never put more than 60,000 miles on a vehicle.

I don't think this technology is ready to use yet. When the holes get down to 20 microns, and the surface area up to about 100-150 square inches, then I think I'll consider using one. Meanwhile, "good for the life of your vehicle" is not an impressive claim if the device shortens the life of your vehicle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,397 Posts
vic aka wix

my first oil change after the 500 miler done by the dealer with the former owner was at 2,000 miles picked up the proper wix filter, it had same #'s stamped inside the mounting surface!! although many things are made by the same manufacturer the specs + price point determines quality, of course the name adds cost, think Victory-Hardly + especially high end bikes like Ducati.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,414 Posts
The tree hugger comment came to my mind but we're driving bikes that get maybe 40 mpg not 60 mpg so can adding more to the carbon footprint still label one even if they don't add filters to a landfill. Now I'm splitting hairs :eek:
I don't stop with filter cartridges or fuel efficiency. I also own acreage and have planted over 13,000 trees on it. I think my carbon footprint would be a negative number even if I drove an SUV at 12 MPG. The filter is just one example. I am also building a house with an R-60 ceiling and R-38 walls and a ground source heat pump with a hot water heater that uses recovered heat from the heat pump to heat the water. For me the filter merely reflects an attitude, not my total contribution.
I am probably the worst kind of tree hugger, I know how to think.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top