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Discussion Starter #1
Thoughts and comments needed before pulling the trigger on my upgrades.

Current set up.
Stock 2013 XCT!
Cruiser Caddy Cup Holder.
Samsung S4 Phone Mount.
No name highway front foot pegs soon to be replaced.

I'm ready to pull the trigger on the following upgrades in the next week. And would like to know if this set up would meet my minimum performance goals.

1. Arlen Ness Big Honker Pipes. "Love the sound, not over the top but darn sure not your average stock quiet pipes. "
2. Power Commander V
Question.? what would be the best air intake to go with the upgrades 1 & 2.
3. What's the best install for and air intake that works with the 1 & 2 upgrades. My local dealers will be doing the install so it should be a matter or drop in and play.

My goals are low end on off the line pull and power. Mid range solid throttle response and passing power. I'm looking for that instance throttle response in each gear. Feed back on the upgrades I'm looking to do would be gladly appreciated before I the trigger next week.

Thanks.
 

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I haven't changed a thing yet, but my reading of thus forum has led me to recommend the ATS and lloydz air filter. Many experienced owners will chime in now and confirm or enhance those two additional recommendations. Good luck, wish I had the $ in hand to make the changes I want right now like you!cheers
 

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1. Arlen Ness Big Honker Pipes. "Love the sound, not over the top but darn sure not your average stock quiet pipes. "
If they sound the way you like, go for it. They are nice pipes.

2. Power Commander V
Currently the PCV is the best fuel controller for the Victory bikes as far as adjustability goes. Fuel and timing may both be added and subtracted. You will need a dyno tune with the PCV unless you get the auto tune attachment.


Question.? what would be the best air intake to go with the upgrades 1 & 2.
Currently there are only a few options for Air intake on the Cross bikes. There is the Vic stage one which is a high flow panel style. Ness I believe makes one that is pretty much the same. The best air filter is the Lloydz filter. The Lloydz requires the removing of the foam noise reducing strip and a plastic piece. Its extremely easy to do.

3. What's the best install for and air intake that works with the 1 & 2 upgrades. My local dealers will be doing the install so it should be a matter or drop in and play.
Same answer as the above question.

My goals are low end on off the line pull and power. Mid range solid throttle response and passing power. I'm looking for that instance throttle response in each gear. Feed back on the upgrades I'm looking to do would be gladly appreciated before I the trigger next week.

Thanks.
In addition to the filter and pipes, you may want to consider the Timing wheel also sold by Lloydz and his distributers. This also has extremely easy installation.

Hotvic.com and buywitchdoctors.com both sell the Lloydz air filter and timing wheel.
Good luck.
 

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Gmaxx,

I have the Arlen Ness Big Honkers and love them! I have the Lloydz air filter and timing wheel and it is your best bang for the buck mods. I also have the Cobra Power tuner vice the Power Commander V, can't say it is a great fuel controller but it is alright. I will be swapping it out this summer for the PCV.

Good luck with your mods:D

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks to all for the feedback. Would it be a fair statement that the Lloydz air filter is preferred over the Ness & Vic air intakes? I understand the Lloydz air intake requires the removing of the foam noise reducing strip and a plastic piece. Is this something any confident dealer service mechanic should be aware of and can handle? In addition would this removal of the noise reducing strip make an already noisy engine even noisier? LOL! Now, at over 13K the engine noise levels have greatly reduced. But she's still a noisy engine. Which is the number one reason for the need of louder pipes. In addition I didn't intend on adding the Power Commander V Auto tuner. Nor was I considering have the bike dyno tuned. Will it be ok to run it with just the drop in upgrades?

1. Ness Big Honker Pipes
2. Power Commander V
3. Lloydz Air Intake
4. What the benefit does the Lloydz timing wheel add?

Thanks, again to all for the feedback.
 

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You should be able to use the power commander with a generic tune, but it will just be a guess and you'll never know if it right for your bike. A dyno tune will dial it in to make sure your getting to best performance.

The timing wheel allows the timing to be advanced a bit and improve bottom end power and throttle response.

If you want to improve bottom end performance how about an under drive pulley.
 

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I would do Lloydz top air filter
Lloydz timing wheel
and hold off on the PCV. Ride the bike for a thousand miles and see what you think.
With a PCV you should get it dyno tuned for the best results so look for some one that can do Vic's.
Lloydz is test now a tuner that is going to be as good or better then the PCV
 

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Thanks to all for the feedback. Would it be a fair statement that the Lloydz air filter is preferred over the Ness & Vic air intakes?
Yes. It allows much more air to flow into the intake.

I understand the Lloydz air intake requires the removing of the foam noise reducing strip and a plastic piece. Is this something any confident dealer service mechanic should be aware of and can handle?
It comes with instructions and is EXTREMELY easy. Anyone can do it.

In addition would this removal of the noise reducing strip make an already noisy engine even noisier? LOL! Now, at over 13K the engine noise levels have greatly reduced. But she's still a noisy engine. Which is the number one reason for the need of louder pipes.
It will be another type of noise. Most people never really hear it or they get used to it.

In addition I didn't intend on adding the Power Commander V Auto tuner. Nor was I considering have the bike dyno tuned. Will it be ok to run it with just the drop in upgrades?
You can contact Rylan at The Vic Shop aka Vicbuilder on the forum for a generic map. Keep in mind it will be very conservative. If you are looking for a cheaper easier to tune tuner perhaps you could look into the VFC 3. It is a standard dobeck style tuner, easy to tune, but with limitations. Once again, anyone can tune it. When in doubt call one of the Vic tuners and ask what the recommend for your setup. Before deciding on the VFC 3 or PCV you need to ask yourself how modified you are planning on making you bike. You you are thinking cams or big bore than get the PCV. If you are just thinking pipe and intake you can save some cash by getting the VFC 3.

Yes, with just pipes and intake you can ride it without a tune. However, it will be off on AFR and could be running lean as a result.

1. Ness Big Honker Pipes
2. Power Commander V
3. Lloydz Air Intake
4. What the benefit does the Lloydz timing wheel add?
The timing wheel will be the biggest bang for the buck of all the upgrades you are considering. it will either advance or retard ignition timing. They come set to 4 degrees advance from Lloyd, however some Cross bike riders have pushed theirs to 7 degrees advance with no issues and lots more performance. It will give you much better throttle response and better performance on the low end of the tq curve. If you do any of these mods, this is the one that I think you would like the most.


The tuner VJ is referring to is the VFC 4. It will not be as good as the PCV. It does not have the same tuning capabilities. It does however come with a AFR gauge for real time tuning ability, something the VFC lacks.

This is the VFC 4 before being rebranded: http://www.techlusion.com/GEN4/Gen4technology.asp

If you know anything at all about he PCV, you will realize this has nowhere near the same tuning capabilities. However, the AFR gauge make simple tuning even more simple.

I hope this helped.thumb up
 

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1. Arlen Ness Big Honker Pipes. "Love the sound, not over the top but darn sure not your average stock quiet pipes. "
2. Power Commander V
Question.? what would be the best air intake to go with the upgrades 1 & 2.
3. What's the best install for and air intake that works with the 1 & 2 upgrades. My local dealers will be doing the install so it should be a matter or drop in and play.

You'll get a little boost, but for the most part, you have a great combination for noise. If that is what you are looking for, well so be it.

My goals are low end on off the line pull and power. Mid range solid throttle response and passing power. I'm looking for that instance throttle response in each gear. Feed back on the upgrades I'm looking to do would be gladly appreciated before I the trigger next week.
The Lloyds timing wheel will give you the most bang for your buck and will be compatible with other mods as well as the PCV. It will also give you more on the low and medium ranges. You did make a better choice going the route you describe vs Stage 1 though.

Thanks.
Good luck and happy shopping
 

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Lloydz is test now a tuner that is going to be as good or better then the PCV
That ought to be interesting. I'd like to see what stacks up to the PCs.
 

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That ought to be interesting. I'd like to see what stacks up to the PCs.
Its the VFC 4 and it is an apples to oranges comparison as far as tuners go. PCV is capable of much more but also is more expensive, especially if you add the wide band sensors and other add ons. Also, the PCV is almost universally known to tuners. If you say "VFC 4" to a non vic tuner odds are they will have no idea what you are talking about. It is just a rebranded Dobeck gen 4. The VFC 3 was just a rebranded Dobeck gen 3 and so on.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Home all day going over and reviewing the comments and suggestions. Courtesy of the East Coast Snow Storm in the Washington DMV area. Final questions on the upgrades I'm looking to pull the trigger on.

1. Arlen Ness Big Honker Pipes. (Done deal on these)
2. Power Commander V + the auto tune module. (It appeals to me, that with the auto tune module it would adjust the PCV to my riding style and environment. Would that be a fair statement to make?
3. Lloydz Air Intake. (Done deal on this)
4. Lloydz (ATW) After reading many of forum reviews. Is my understanding correct? With the Lloydz ATW, advanced + 4 degrees and I know this is adjustable. But it's essentially moving the torque curve into the desired rpm range. I notice that my XCT in it's stock form my power band kicks in around 3,000 rpm to 4,000 rpm. Right around 3,500 is the sweat spot. I would love to see a more instance and active throttle response in a lower rpm range. There seem to be a certain lag in the throttle response and I really have to push to rpm's up to get the snap and raw passing power I'm looking for. After much review it seems that the Lloydz ATW take care of that lag in the throttle response and moves the rpm range to the left. Would that also be a fair concussion? Thx!
 

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every one that installs cam's puts in the wheel. Its unbelievable what it does and you can feel it in the seat off your pants and you'll be at 60mph in a blink of a eye
 

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Home all day going over and reviewing the comments and suggestions. Courtesy of the East Coast Snow Storm in the Washington DMV area. Final questions on the upgrades I'm looking to pull the trigger on.

1. Arlen Ness Big Honker Pipes. (Done deal on these)
2. Power Commander V + the auto tune module. (It appeals to me, that with the auto tune module it would adjust the PCV to my riding style and environment. Would that be a fair statement to make?
3. Lloydz Air Intake. (Done deal on this)
4. Lloydz (ATW) After reading many of forum reviews. Is my understanding correct? With the Lloydz ATW, advanced + 4 degrees and I know this is adjustable. But it's essentially moving the torque curve into the desired rpm range. I notice that my XCT in it's stock form my power band kicks in around 3,000 rpm to 4,000 rpm. Right around 3,500 is the sweat spot. I would love to see a more instance and active throttle response in a lower rpm range. There seem to be a certain lag in the throttle response and I really have to push to rpm's up to get the snap and raw passing power I'm looking for. After much review it seems that the Lloydz ATW take care of that lag in the throttle response and moves the rpm range to the left. Would that also be a fair concussion? Thx!
Interesting comment there. Won't argue that it can be better but it makes me have to ask, how many miles do you have on this machine? Vics take a long time to break in, have to be shifted (if you were on something that didn't need a lot of that) and seem to fall off at 4K before they break in well.
If you have less than 5K miles, you haven't got it broken in. It will change dramatically without tampering at around that mileage. Oh and Vics DO NOT like to be lugged, so the power band on a stocker cranks up around 3-4K.
Either way sounds like you will have a good start as long as you keep on top of the auto tune.
Oh if you want to spend a little more money well, try out a 1/4 turn throttle ring. They will take a lot of the loooooong throttle out and might add some of the crispness you seem to be looking for. Either way it is a nice upgrade.
Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Lostintexas, My baby gone through 4 standard service levels and I'm currently a little over 12,500K miles. Actually going to be doing my first rear tire replacement, as soon as the weather breaks here on the east coast. I would say she's well broken in a this point. I've definitely notice the performance ratio change for the better as miles and time passed. Under that 5k service mark. I notice performance dropped considerably under the 5k mile range when getting close to that service interval. But she now runs pretty darn strong right on up to the 5k service mark. I'll tell you there are times I'm still smiling ear to ear on the highway riding my baby and the performance she's kicking out even at her stock level. It's just I know she has soooooooooooo much more untapped potential I'd like to bring out in her. Just next level stuff.
 

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4. Lloydz (ATW) After reading many of forum reviews. Is my understanding correct? With the Lloydz ATW, advanced + 4 degrees and I know this is adjustable. But it's essentially moving the torque curve into the desired rpm range.
I literally noticed no difference after I installed the timing wheel. There's no doubt that it helps with other mods (like cams, or a full setup intake/exhaust/PCV) but on a stock bike...... I noticed nothing.

I have one. In the long run will it increase power? Sure. How much.... a minimum. The PCV adjusts timing after 2500 RPM I believe. Which is almost where you spend most of your time. I just bought one because it was cheap enough I didn't care if it did anything. That's my opinion.

I do like the Lloydz filter though. Noisier than stock but such a better design.
 

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Hum? So mrtappan whats your set now? Are you running stock with just the Lloydz ATW?
No I have the whole nine yards almost.....

Lloydz filter
Lloydz timing wheel
MSD plug wires
PCV with Autotune (AT to be installed Saturday by myself)
Lloydz air idle valve thingy
"Modified" exhaust (came like that from dealer, modified by who knows)
VM1-DR cams (to be installed Saturday too with AT by myself)

I own a tiny motorcycle shop which I use basically as a tax write off since I have no children. I do a bike at a time. I just finished the one there now so I'm doing my own bike this weekend. Like the old line about why "the cobbler always wears worn shoes" because I'm always working on someone else' problem.

I installed the wheel when the bike just had the exhaust which it came with. I noticed no difference. With a good tune and cams, maybe the wheel makes a difference. If it's your only addition I can't see advancing the timing making any real difference in performance. Maybe 5hp or so.

So with the AT, cams, filter, exhaust, etc. the wheel might have a bigger difference. I wouldn't recommend it as a "must have" mod myself. But that's just me.
 

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I literally noticed no difference after I installed the timing wheel. There's no doubt that it helps with other mods (like cams, or a full setup intake/exhaust/PCV) but on a stock bike...... I noticed nothing.

I have one. In the long run will it increase power? Sure. How much.... a minimum. The PCV adjusts timing after 2500 RPM I believe. Which is almost where you spend most of your time. I just bought one because it was cheap enough I didn't care if it did anything. That's my opinion.

I do like the Lloydz filter though. Noisier than stock but such a better design.
Are you running the timing wheel at 4 degrees like it came or have you tried more advance? 4 degrees was a conservative setting for the touring frame bikes like the Cross, Hardball, and Vision. I cannot remember who it is right now, but someone on this board is running 8* advance. If your curious it might be someone to look into since you're going to be working on your bike soon anyway.

And you're right about the PCV. It does only adjust timing above 2500 rpm. The wheel does it throughout the entire rpm range.
 
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