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Discussion Starter #1
I'm sure this has been covered, but I gotta ask...

Starting with the performance part of this bike.. and was wondering what order folks would recommend upgrades...

13 vegas 8ball, stage one crap (didn't know any better at the time of purchase}

Already have Lloyds timing wheel, will be installing this weekend.

So whats the next smart move? PCV? Pipes? Lloyds TT??
Cannot do all the upgrades at once, so I want to piece it together,
unless the rest has to be done all at once??

From what I have read, the timing wheel will work with the set up as is, bolt in and ride.

Do I disconnact the O2 sensors??

I want to do this right, not throw away more $$$

Suggestions?


Sorry if this is beating the same horse, I'm just trying to do this the right way

Thank in advance!:D
 

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Discussion Starter #3
What kind of budget do you have and what are you hoping for performance wise?
about 1g for the rest...

Not planning on cams, just more sound and a little more low pull

This bike is my daily rider, and I want to keep it reliable will getting a little more umph out of it thumb up
 

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After doing a bunch of checking I went/am going this route in order.

1. Timing wheel.
2. Disconnect O2 sensors.
3. Exhaust.
4. Fuel controller.
5. Air intake.

At the present time I have no wish to take it further as cracking the throttle to wide open can already scare the sh!t out of me.

1, 2, and 3 can be done in any sequence and for me was based on available $$$. Before going any further you should decide whether an exhaust change is being done for sound or performance because your options after that may change. 4 can be done next however from what I've been able to find the benefits are minimal. Mine will be limited to a level 3 controller which I already have but not installed. Step 5 is what really gives it a kick in the pants and pretty much demands step 4 be in place. I'm presently waiting for that step 5 item entirely due to the recent trashing the Canadian dollar has taken.(if anyone wants to step up to the tubes from your existing Lloydz breather I can help you defer the cost)

Anything further like cams, level 4 and 5 fuel management systems, cylinder enlargement, and cylinder pressurization are beyond what I've presently planned for.:D

I'm not a mechanic but there's not much I won't figure out or try and this is the route I am taking. Everything here is doable at home with minimal tools. (while it's an effective tool for tuning that I don't have access to, a dyno is simply a measuring device better utilized by those who can effectively use it) Others here who are more informed than I will probably have their own opinions and suggestions. Take it all in and you'll make your best decision.

Good luck and have fun.

PS I did make a step that could be called 3.5. I drilled out about a dozen holes in the air box in front of the filter when I installed the more open exhaust.
 

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about 1g for the rest...

Not planning on cams, just more sound and a little more low pull

This bike is my daily rider, and I want to keep it reliable will getting a little more umph out of it thumb up
There is no downside to performance upgrades on these engines as they are WAY overbuilt. Ergo, no worries whatsoever re. reliability. For $1k, I'd invest in a good performing pipe from (in no particular order), Conquest Customs (the Assault pipe), RPW 2-1's (Bad Boy, Thor, etc.), RPW's 2-2 Slash, or Bassani Road Rage. Add a VFC III fuel controller and you'll be set and at the end of your $ supply.:D
 

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Decide on which intake you want. You can get a ness for around$150 but it's a pain to clean since you have to take the whole thing off. VFCIII is a decent controller but you won't get it perfect like you can with a PCV. I would spend my money on the PCV first and decide which filter you want. You can modify the xbows baffles you have to flow better and add exhaust later when you have more money.
 

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about 1g for the rest...

Not planning on cams, just more sound and a little more low pull
If you keep your current exhaust, you could get the Lloydz Torque Tube Intake and a PC V. If you buy those items from Lloydz, he can load a tune w/your setup. You'd have a bit of $ left as well.:D

The PC V will also be able to handle any future mods you might do. It's a much better and more flexible tuner than the VFC. It tunes each cylinder & it can add and subtract fuel. If you go w/a Ness intake, the VFC would be "adequate",
 

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If you keep your current exhaust, you could get the Lloydz Torque Tube Intake and a PC V. If you buy those items from Lloydz, he can load a tune w/your setup. You'd have a bit of $ left as well.:D

The PC V will also be able to handle any future mods you might do. It's a much better and more flexible tuner than the VFC. It tunes each cylinder & it can add and subtract fuel. If you go w/a Ness intake, the VFC would be "adequate",
I love Lloydz, but the difference between other intakes for a LOT less money is negligible.

If I had $1,000 to spend on performance after a timing wheel, I'd put it all into a power commander and autotune. The exhaust and intake can be added later without dyno-tuning each time. If you want to put the bike together slowly and without having a pro dyno it each time, get the PCV and AT and wait for making the larger mods.
 

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... the difference between other intakes for a LOT less money is negligible.

If I had $1,000 to spend on performance after a timing wheel, I'd put it all into a power commander and autotune. The exhaust and intake can be added later without dyno-tuning each time. If you want to put the bike together slowly and without having a pro dyno it each time, get the PCV and AT and wait for making the larger mods.
On this thread, http://www.victoryforums.com/showthread.php?t=122305, Motorbikerx writes "I went from from the above setup with NessRam filter which is similar to the S&S and Lloyds high-flow airbox/filters, to TorqueTubes and the difference on the dyno wasnt much 2HP / 3ftlb over the Ness, up to 4000rpm then the lines merged.
Biggest increase was in torque down low, went from 100ft/lb @2250 to 104ft/lb and held the 4 ft/lb till 3500.

Yes Tubes give a great increase over stock, but not much more over the much cheaper ways of increasing intake airflow.

For me the clincher was ease of service for filters (leave tank on)
The look and the noise is hard to beat too.

For those on a budget the much cheaper intakes will satisfy as they all give a great increase over that stock chunk of plastic."

So, yes, a handful of TQ for quite a bit more $, less the ease of servicing the intake, of course. The Autotune may be the way to go given your approach to upgrades. Probably can buy one used from a member who's done w/it.cheers
 

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On this thread, http://www.victoryforums.com/showthread.php?t=122305, Motorbikerx writes "I went from from the above setup with NessRam filter which is similar to the S&S and Lloyds high-flow airbox/filters, to TorqueTubes and the difference on the dyno wasnt much 2HP / 3ftlb over the Ness, up to 4000rpm then the lines merged.
Biggest increase was in torque down low, went from 100ft/lb @2250 to 104ft/lb and held the 4 ft/lb till 3500.

Yes Tubes give a great increase over stock, but not much more over the much cheaper ways of increasing intake airflow.

For me the clincher was ease of service for filters (leave tank on)
The look and the noise is hard to beat too.



For those on a budget the much cheaper intakes will satisfy as they all give a great increase over that stock chunk of plastic."

So, yes, a handful of TQ for quite a bit more $, less the ease of servicing the intake, of course. The Autotune may be the way to go given your approach to upgrades. Probably can buy one used from a member who's done w/it.cheers
Yah thats right if youre on a tight budget of 1K you need to spend wisely...you have a big advantage in your stateside so save on freight and your dollar buys more.
Afterr contacting K&N re cleaning and reoiling the filters (whichever one) theyre good for up to 50,000 miles so dont stress over the mainenance factor.
Its a pity Lloydz dont make a cheaper blingless filter as the shiny stuff is invisible anyway and adds to the cost.
Thats an awful tight budget cos soon as you enhance your breathing youre gonna need a fuel controller.
Id say Ness or LLOYDZ or S&S intake filter a PCV and a tune.
My dyno man only charges me $50 a throw for tickle-up tunes after the initial tune so I could afford to experiment...see if you can get a similar deal somewhere then later when you get a decent exhaust you can get your tuning spot on.
Other way to go is Freedom Performance pipes a Ness filter and a used self programable tuner.
 

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I love Lloydz, but the difference between other intakes for a LOT less money is negligible.
Well... only a couple of HP at peak but going from 119 ft-lbs to 130 ft-lbs is not what I would call 'negligible'.

This is S&S vs Torque Tubes on my old 104" engine. Blue is the S&S and red is the TTI. I think the difference is pretty impressive. The marker at 3400 rpm shows +11 HP and +17 ft-lbs... That TTI was worth every penny and the air filters are easy to clean too.

 

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Discussion Starter #12
HC, is that with heavy motor work?? Meaning cams and so on???
 

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I guess what I meant, on a bike with marginal/minimal performance upgrades (meaning not cammed, but good intake and exhaust and fuel controller), is the gain that much more? Again, I'm asking because as of now, I don't see going with the cams in the very near future, if at all. I was looking for a modest boost without a huge $$$ behind it.

Don't know if I'm explaining it right but I'm trying LOL

PS> A HUGE thanks to EVERYONE replying to this thread. I have gotten so much good info from this forum over the last year,, it's really all about the people!

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Basically, you get what you pay for. The best way to save money is to shop, shop, shop for the best price. Not the cheapest crap... the best price on the good ****.

How much do you want?
How badly do you want it?

The first step is the timing wheel, then pipes/unplug the O2s, then a Power Commander, then an airbox, and then get it tuned. Kind of an expensive way to go... but you won't be riding unhappy with regrets.
 

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For 1000 bucks you can get rpw pipes, a vfciii, and a ness filter. It will totally change the bike and for the price you will be happy. But like HC is saying once you start you probably won't stop or at least you will want to have it dialed in correctly. I know the swepts I have are crappy pipes but they were on the bike when I bought it. After getting new baffles and adding a vfciii/ness filter it is a completely different bike. If I had to do it over again I would have gotten a pcv instead just for future mods. I'm satisfied with the ness filter and the pipes sounds great but I'm still losing a few hp compared to rpw's. I know I will probably be adding cams and swapping pipes with that a pcv even tho I could get by with the vfciii. I want it tuned perfectly and you just not going to get that out of the vfciii but you can get close if close is good enough for you.


Oh and don't forget the throttle ring, $20 it's a no brainer.
 

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I know the swepts I have are crappy pipes but...
And there's that regret thing.

I'm satisfied with the ness filter and the pipes...
The only reason there's not torque tubes, a power commander, and a good set of pipes on the bike is that you don't want to spend the money. You would rather have the good ****.

The OP has the opportunity to start at the beginning and do it once, do it right, and not have to convince himself that he's happy while knowing there's a better set-up out there.
 

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And there's that regret thing.


The only reason there's not torque tubes, a power commander, and a good set of pipes on the bike is that you don't want to spend the money. You would rather have the good ****.

The OP has the opportunity to start at the beginning and do it once, do it right, and not have to convince himself that he's happy while knowing there's a better set-up out there.
You left out the already on the bike when I bought it. So no regrets I didn't spend a dime on them other than the baffles and that was money well spent.

I still wouldn't have TTI just don't like the look but I agree with you 100% and that's what I put in my first post. Add it little by little if you don't have the funds but do it right so there are no regrets later.
 

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I guess what I meant, on a bike with marginal/minimal performance upgrades (meaning not cammed, but good intake and exhaust and fuel controller), is the gain that much more? Again, I'm asking because as of now, I don't see going with the cams in the very near future, if at all. I was looking for a modest boost without a huge $$$ behind it.

Don't know if I'm explaining it right but I'm trying LOL

PS> A HUGE thanks to EVERYONE replying to this thread. I have gotten so much good info from this forum over the last year,, it's really all about the people!

thumb up

Clear as mate..youre on a tight budget and you wont be camming up in the near future.
HCs solid gains from the Tubes come via his cams and compression.
Without hot cams the difference in $$$ between Tubes and a Ness will buy you a PCV, shop around for a good dyno deal and I reckon you'll be happy.
I'm not going the cams route either as I ride the lower usable 1500-4500 rpm range and my licence is on thin ice even so.
Sure be nice to have the same urge from 4500-6000 as I get down low but in the real world if I had it Id use it and Im not willing to sacrifice my low speed tractability for a top end thatd see me behind bars.
If your budget was more Id say go the rats, after all I have the Tubes myself but honestly dollarwise theyre a luxury.
 

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You left out the already on the bike when I bought it.
I still wouldn't have TTI just don't like the look
Yeah, mine had Victory pipes on it when I bought it too. They were crap. I didn't buy the TTI for looks.

HCs solid gains from the Tubes come via his cams and compression.
The TTI is worth 7-9 ft-lbs across the board over an S&S box on a stock compression/stock cams bike... and more than that over a Ness box.

TTI on a Vegas LE (106"). How's this for a torque curve? 100 at 2100 rpm
 
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