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The stock is way up today. Part of reason is that motorcycle sales were up 107% in second quarter. Bad news is, it's being reported as all Indian sales. Poor old Victory not even mentioned.
 

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The stock is way up today. Part of reason is that motorcycle sales were up 107% in second quarter. Bad news is, it's being reported as all Indian sales. Poor old Victory not even mentioned.
Does anyone think that Polaris has cannibalized some of their Victory sales with the Indian launch, or is the general opinion that the two brands are marketed far enough apart (in style and/or price point) that Polaris is not selling to the 'same' people between the two brands?
 

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Definitely an interesting question. Spirit Motorcycles just opened here in San Jose. The dealership sells both Indian, Victory, and it looks like they'll be selling the new Polaris Slingshot (but not the other Polaris vehicles). I've talked several times to the owners and the general manager and their sales have been better than expected. They push the Indian brand over the Victory products - they even have the Indian logo painted on the side of the building - and yet they sell more Victories by almost two-to-one.
 

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Definitely an interesting question. Spirit Motorcycles just opened here in San Jose. The dealership sells both Indian, Victory, and it looks like they'll be selling the new Polaris Slingshot (but not the other Polaris vehicles). I've talked several times to the owners and the general manager and their sales have been better than expected. They push the Indian brand over the Victory products - they even have the Indian logo painted on the side of the building - and yet they sell more Victories by almost two-to-one.
That surprising to me. I would have figured the opposite. I feel that with the lineups, the brands are too close to each other. I've always felt that Victory should NOT have started off with v-twins. That led the to inevitable comparisons to HD, like it or not. When Polaris stared Victory, they had a clean sheet of paper, and they chose the "American" v-twin market, and I think that has hurt them, and continues to. Look at what Triumph has done with their unique bikes. If there is a better role model for Victory, I can't think of it. Victory needs to expand their portfolio to bring in a wider customer base and really separate themselves from Indian AND HD.
 

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That surprising to me. I would have figured the opposite. I feel that with the lineups, the brands are too close to each other. I've always felt that Victory should NOT have started off with v-twins. That led the to inevitable comparisons to HD, like it or not. When Polaris stared Victory, they had a clean sheet of paper, and they chose the "American" v-twin market, and I think that has hurt them, and continues to. Look at what Triumph has done with their unique bikes. If there is a better role model for Victory, I can't think of it. Victory needs to expand their portfolio to bring in a wider customer base and really separate themselves from Indian AND HD.
Oh, I agree. But if you look at our market, Silicon Valley, most of the buyers will be affluent and young(er). Indian has little appeal to this demographic. Certainly, the quarterly numbers show Indian outselling Victory worldwide and, really that makes sense to me, as the Victory lineup hasn't had any love from Polaris for the past couple of years as they focused on Indian.

With Indian now competing against HD directly, the Victory brand will probably shift towards sport, sport touring, adventure, electric bikes instead. I wouldn't be surprised to see Victory exit the V-twin market altogether. Not immediately. It will probably take a few years but we'll see the newer, smaller water-cooled V-twin this year, and that will be the start of the shift.

So, for Sturgis, I'm predicting the reveal of a new Indian model (Scout?) and a touring version of the Chieftain, again another signal towards Indian taking the V-twin mantle away from Victory.
 

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It will probably take a few years but we'll see the newer, smaller water-cooled V-twin this year, and that will be the start of the shift.

So, for Sturgis, I'm predicting the reveal of a new Indian model (Scout?) and a touring version of the Chieftain, again another signal towards Indian taking the V-twin mantle away from Victory.
What is the newer, smaller v-twin that you refer to?

And as to your other comment, I had no intention of getting rid of my 900cc Scrambler when I got my Gunner [different bikes for different rides, I figured]. But if/when Indian comes out with a smaller, new Scout? Um yeah, I might have to put some serious thought into abandoning my beloved Triumph. :crzy:
 

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Thank you, I tried googling but didn't know what I was looking for, lol.

I'm not sure I see where this bike is smaller, though. It's not just another Vic big-twin variant?
You're right. I saw a spy shot of the bike with someone riding it and it seems to me that either the guy riding it was really large or the bike in question, which looked almost exactly like one in the patent, was a smaller cruiser.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/304634/images/victory.jpg
 

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I don't think Indian is a concern for Victory sales. Polaris barely promoting the brand is a concern for Victory sales. But they haven't started promoting Vic LESS since Indian re-launched.

The two brands are intended to target different tastes. Saying Indian is cannibalizing Victory sales is like saying Cadillac cannibalizes Chevrolet sales. Diff'rent strokes.
 

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My opinion is that the way Indian has hurt Victory sales for me at least, I have 40K on my XC and was thinking that it may be time to replace it. The first pick on my list would be another XC, the only other bike I would consider would be a Vision. (But they would have to have larger saddle bags than the current offering). I have got over the look of the vision and if it handled and the wind protection was that much better then the XC it may be the one for me. Now what the Indian line has done to change my purchase, (after test riding all three Indians) they are not even close to equaling the Vic I ride now. That being said I'll keep what I have now for at least another riding season to see what Polaris is going to do with the Vic line. If they discontinue the V Twin cruiser, Ill replace the XC with another bike in 2016, But it will most definitely NOT be a indian or some kind of a sport multi cylinder smaller lighter bike. It would probably be a HD or Yamaha. :(
 

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Now what the Indian line has done to change my purchase, (after test riding all three Indians) they are not even close to equaling the Vic I ride now. If they discontinue the V Twin cruiser, Ill replace the XC with another bike in 2016, But it will most definitely NOT be a indian or some kind of a sport multi cylinder smaller lighter bike. It would probably be a HD or Yamaha. :(
What did you dislike about the Indian, compared to a similar Vic or HD?

I'm asking out of curiosity, I've never test-ridden an Indian.
 

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I have noticed more Victory commercials on TV in the last year or two than ever before.
I don't see the Vic line being orphaned (hopefully),but that could be why they are handling the XC backrest "service bulletin" so horribly.
 

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My opinion is that the way Indian has hurt Victory sales for me at least, I have 40K on my XC and was thinking that it may be time to replace it.
Why would you get rid of a XC with only 40k on it?
 

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I think they are still in different markets. The Indian is for the nostalgic rider and will take more HD share than Vic will. Vics are more geared toward taking the newer HD riders and the Japanese riders.
 

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What did you dislike about the Indian, compared to a similar Vic or HD?

I'm asking out of curiosity, I've never test-ridden an Indian.
I have.

1. The Chief I rode put out a lot of heat. My XR doesn't.

2. The Chief was very compact, even for me and I'm a whooping 5'7".

3. The Chief's seat wasn't very comfortable.

4. The Chief's seat leather was deformed and discolored from the demo rides. Bike probably had less than a thousand miles on it and the seat looked awful.

5. The Chief's steering is very heavy at low speed compared to my XR.

6. The Chief uses spoked rims, and tubed, bias ply tires. My XR has tubeless radials.

7. The Chief felt spunkier off the line than my XR, but ran out of mojo earlier in the rev range.

Basically, there was nothing there for me either.

I was listening to an interview with CEO Wine today and he noted that snowmobiles and bikes together only account for 15% or Polaris' revenue. The bulk of their money is made in ATVs and side by sides.

They did knock the leather off the ball, but MC sales were mixed. Indians did well and Vics declined. But keep in mind there was pent up demand for the new Indian. That level of enthusiasm may wane. And the number they disclosed was dollars of sales. No mention of how much it cost them in opening all the new dealers, advertising etc.

Having been by some Harley and Vic dealers, it seems that sales are pretty slack around these parts for our style of bikes. My local Vic shop still has a bunch of 13s taking up space on his floor.
 

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I have.

1. The Chief I rode put out a lot of heat. My XR doesn't.

2. The Chief was very compact, even for me and I'm a whooping 5'7".

3. The Chief's seat wasn't very comfortable.

4. The Chief's seat leather was deformed and discolored from the demo rides. Bike probably had less than a thousand miles on it and the seat looked awful.

5. The Chief's steering is very heavy at low speed compared to my XR.

6. The Chief uses spoked rims, and tubed, bias ply tires. My XR has tubeless radials.

7. The Chief felt spunkier off the line than my XR, but ran out of mojo earlier in the rev range.

Basically, there was nothing there for me either.

I was listening to an interview with CEO Wine today and he noted that snowmobiles and bikes together only account for 15% or Polaris' revenue. The bulk of their money is made in ATVs and side by sides.

They did knock the leather off the ball, but MC sales were mixed. Indians did well and Vics declined. But keep in mind there was pent up demand for the new Indian. That level of enthusiasm may wane. And the number they disclosed was dollars of sales. No mention of how much it cost them in opening all the new dealers, advertising etc.

Having been by some Harley and Vic dealers, it seems that sales are pretty slack around these parts for our style of bikes. My local Vic shop still has a bunch of 13s taking up space on his floor.
Thank You!! exactly what I would have said. + Why would you want to go away from a overhead cam engine to a freaking pushrod engine.

I know why polaris did what they did on the indian, in my opinion they did all they could do to lure the old time brain dead people away from the HD'S and apparently the Vics didn't do what they expected it to do. More power to Polaris. I count the money they make me in the stock market and thank them. But if the don't give the Vic line equal effort to the indian line I'll go elsewhere for my next purchase.

(Saddlebag, it is amazing how politically different we can be, and be in total agreement on bikes). thumb up
 

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Thank You!! exactly what I would have said. + Why would you want to go away from a overhead cam engine to a freaking pushrod engine.


(Saddlebag, it is amazing how politically different we can be, and be in total agreement on bikes). thumb up
+1 on that.
 

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Why would you get rid of a XC with only 40k on it?
Because I would rather spend the money on a new bike rather than the maintenance, new belt, front and rear axle bearings, tighten or replace the bearings in the triple tree, and all of the other related things. If you have the money, just buy new. That is why the polaris stock keeps going up. I work hard at my job, I don't want to work too hard on the bike. I'll just buy a new one. I would rather give my money to Polaris, (I just keep hoping they take the indian badge off, and put the real badge that rescued a bankrupt has been company) POLARIS. INDIAN WAS DEAD MANY YEARS AGO. but polaris lives on.
 
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