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So, I have the PC5 w/ AT-300 installed, had a dyno tune done to get me close and when I have AT enabled, something very strange is happening around thew 2000-2500 rpm range - its as if its stumbling to run in that range. Before 2000 and after about 2400 or so is fine, any suggestions? What I've done as I thought to be the correct steps to be was to enable AT, ride about 20 miles, accept trims, save them, and repeat only to have that 2000-2500 rpm still mess up. I've ended up reloading the original map from the dyno tune and turning off AT and no problems. Thanks for any help! :confused:
 

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I wish I could help but it sounds a lot like the trouble I've had with the AT. Seems like it works fine for some and not others. So far I haven't been able to find out why.

One thing you can try though is to reduce the amount of change it can make from 20% down to 10% and see if that makes any difference.
 

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I think the problem is many dyno guys don't understand the auto tune. My dyno guy told me that once he set my map I could just throw away my auto tune. I ended up throwing away his map and going back to the base map with the auto tune. These guys don't understand that the auto tune is doing what they do (build a fuel table) thousands of times faster and more efficiently under real world conditions. Given enough time and miles on the auto tune it probably would have corrected the dyno guy's mapping problems, but I was not that patient.

Riding 20 miles then accepting trims isn't really doing much quite honestly. I normally ride at least two fillups before I accept my trims. This gives the autotune a chance to fill in all the trims across the range of driving I'm doing, and it gives me a chance to check mileage to see if I need to fine tune my AFR's before accepting them.

One thing to be careful about with the base maps is the fuel table settings may be based on an un-flashed ECM. If you are like me and had your ECM flashed due to some add-ons, the base fuel map is probably off. I ended up zeroing out the base fuel map and letting the autotune build up my fuel map from the AFR's over time as I accept the trims. This seems to be working pretty well as the autotune automatically adjusts the feed from the injectors based on the fuel ratio settings real-time even if there are no entries in the base map.

Bottom line, I'd trust the auto tune long before I'd trust a dyno guy again.
 

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I wish I could help but it sounds a lot like the trouble I've had with the AT. Seems like it works fine for some and not others. So far I haven't been able to find out why.

One thing you can try though is to reduce the amount of change it can make from 20% down to 10% and see if that makes any difference.
I'm not sure that would do much. All that would happen is you'd max out a problematic cell's trim at 10%, then once you accepted it and zeroed the trims, you just max that same cell out the next time and be at 20% anyway. The better option would be to examine the trim table and if you have any cells whose trims seem too high it would indicate your AFR for that cell is set too rich. Just lean out the AFR's in the cells whose trims seem to be too high, but don't accept the trims and let the autotune adjust the trims based on the new AFR.
 

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I think the problem is many dyno guys don't understand the auto tune. My dyno guy told me that once he set my map I could just throw away my auto tune. I ended up throwing away his map and going back to the base map with the auto tune. These guys don't understand that the auto tune is doing what they do (build a fuel table) thousands of times faster and more efficiently under real world conditions. Given enough time and miles on the auto tune it probably would have corrected the dyno guy's mapping problems, but I was not that patient.

Riding 20 miles then accepting trims isn't really doing much quite honestly. I normally ride at least two fillups before I accept my trims. This gives the autotune a chance to fill in all the trims across the range of driving I'm doing, and it gives me a chance to check mileage to see if I need to fine tune my AFR's before accepting them.

One thing to be careful about with the base maps is the fuel table settings may be based on an un-flashed ECM. If you are like me and had your ECM flashed due to some add-ons, the base fuel map is probably off. I ended up zeroing out the base fuel map and letting the autotune build up my fuel map from the AFR's over time as I accept the trims. This seems to be working pretty well as the autotune automatically adjusts the feed from the injectors based on the fuel ratio settings real-time even if there are no entries in the base map.

Bottom line, I'd trust the auto tune long before I'd trust a dyno guy again.
I think I'm following you here but don't you need a known good AFR map to begin with? Do you have any entries in the 0 (idle) column?

I'm not sure that would do much. All that would happen is you'd max out a problematic cell's trim at 10%, then once you accepted it and zeroed the trims, you just max that same cell out the next time and be at 20% anyway. The better option would be to examine the trim table and if you have any cells whose trims seem too high it would indicate your AFR for that cell is set too rich. Just lean out the AFR's in the cells whose trims seem to be too high, but don't accept the trims and let the autotune adjust the trims based on the new AFR.
How much do you lean it out at a time? Do you go .5 or a full point?

Do you have an AFR you like that you can do a Print Screen on so we can compare with what your using?

Thanks much! Dang AT has me kinda bummed right now.
 

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Maybe I missed someone mentioning this. The AT does not adjust the map on the fly, you have to accept the trim values that adjusts the map in the PCV, then the Auto Tune learns some more to the map, then you manually update the PCV for any new changes. If you start from a crap map you get a crap map. Just less crappy. There are a lot of rules when tuning with the At to get a really good map. It does not like engine breaking for example, it messes with the cells due to reversion.
 

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I think I'm following you here but don't you need a known good AFR map to begin with? Do you have any entries in the 0 (idle) column?

How much do you lean it out at a time? Do you go .5 or a full point?

Do you have an AFR you like that you can do a Print Screen on so we can compare with what your using?

Thanks much! Dang AT has me kinda bummed right now.
Actually, I started with the M19-002-003 map from dynojet which is for a 2011 106 c.i. with performance exhaust and air filter. It doesn't look much like it now though.

Generally I lean around .5 or so. Sometimes more than that if I think it's a real problem. I wouldn't get bummed at the AT. It's frustrating at first until you get a feel for what it's doing. Once you realize how the system works and what each table is telling you about your performance, it's pretty straightforward figuring out what and how much you want to change something.

Here's a jpeg of an older map I was using. I've modified it somewhat but you can compare it to yours. My current AFR map is a bit leaner at the lower RPM and throttle positions as most of my driving in the local area is 45 - 60 stop and go. That makes the bike more responsive. Hope that helps.

Generally I don't mess with the idle positions on the AFR map. I have slightly richened some entries on the fuel map to stop the decel popping.
 

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Maybe I missed someone mentioning this. The AT does not adjust the map on the fly, you have to accept the trim values that adjusts the map in the PCV, then the Auto Tune learns some more to the map, then you manually update the PCV for any new changes.....
Yes and no. You are technically correct that the AT does not adjust the base PC-V fuel map on the fly, HOWEVER, it DOES make real time aggregate adjustements! The fueling that you end up with is a combination of the base PC fuel map AND the AT trim map! So, the effect is indeed on the fly tuning!
 

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A Few questions

I'm starting to do research on the AT, and will do some searching on this forum as well.

I found this info here:

"Procedure:

Start with a map file that is cylinder basic. This means you have a single fuel table for both cylinders. Put the Auto-tune o2 sensor in the rear pipe.

Turn Auto-tune on and ride. After a riding session, reconnect the software to it. Get the map out of it. View the trims to see what Auto-tune has adjusted. Accept the trims into the base map. Send the new modified map into the Power Commander. Then keep repeating this process until you start to notice very little trims being applied in the trim table. This means that cylinder is tuned.

Click “Save Map File” to save that map into your computer. Then swap the o2 sensor over to the front cylinder. Then let Auto-tune do the same thing with the sensor in the front pipe. Once you have a good map that is being trimmed very little by Auto-tune, save that map file.

Then go into the Map Tools menu and select Advance/Demote Map. Select Cylinder Advanced for the fuel tables and click ok. Go into Auto-tune configuration window and disable Auto-tune. Send the Cylinder Advanced zero map into the Power Commander. Open the first map that was made on rear cylinder.

View the fuel table in it. Highlight the entire chart. Right click in the chart and select Copy. Then click Get Map to retrieve the cylinder advanced map in the unit. View the Cylinder 2 fuel table. Right click inside the table and select Paste.

Then Send Map. Then open a copy of the front cylinder map you made. Copy the fuel table in it. Get the Cylinder Advanced map from the unit. Go into the Cylinder 1 fuel table. Right click inside it. Select Paste. Then Send the map into the unit. You now have a cylinder advanced map with two separate fuel tables in your Power Commander"

I'm confused a little about this product now because, 1.) I need to do more reading. 2) I thought I read were folks un-plug their 02 sensors when using this product.

**********************************************************************

Does any one have any good links for someone just learning about the AT, for instance:

1.) The proper recommended way how is it used?
2.) Which is more applicable to Victory's: The Dyno jet or AT?
3.) Are the other products that are required to use this AT product.
4.) Links to posts where folks really have a great understanding on how to properly use this product and take full advantage of it.

I don't have a motorcycle yet but am planning on a Victory in the next few months, have to wait due to several personal circumstances. I'm hoping by the end of June at the latest unless I decide to wait for a 2013 model.

Thanks for you time and input, I'll be doing a lot of reading starting now.
 

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This is only necessary with the single sensor AT unit. Most of us are buying the dual sensor model, so moving sensor around and working with each map separately is not an issue.


I'm starting to do research on the AT, and will do some searching on this forum as well.

I found this info here:

"Procedure:

Start with a map file that is cylinder basic. This means you have a single fuel table for both cylinders. Put the Auto-tune o2 sensor in the rear pipe.

Turn Auto-tune on and ride. After a riding session, reconnect the software to it. Get the map out of it. View the trims to see what Auto-tune has adjusted. Accept the trims into the base map. Send the new modified map into the Power Commander. Then keep repeating this process until you start to notice very little trims being applied in the trim table. This means that cylinder is tuned.

Click “Save Map File” to save that map into your computer. Then swap the o2 sensor over to the front cylinder. Then let Auto-tune do the same thing with the sensor in the front pipe. Once you have a good map that is being trimmed very little by Auto-tune, save that map file.

Then go into the Map Tools menu and select Advance/Demote Map. Select Cylinder Advanced for the fuel tables and click ok. Go into Auto-tune configuration window and disable Auto-tune. Send the Cylinder Advanced zero map into the Power Commander. Open the first map that was made on rear cylinder.

View the fuel table in it. Highlight the entire chart. Right click in the chart and select Copy. Then click Get Map to retrieve the cylinder advanced map in the unit. View the Cylinder 2 fuel table. Right click inside the table and select Paste.

Then Send Map. Then open a copy of the front cylinder map you made. Copy the fuel table in it. Get the Cylinder Advanced map from the unit. Go into the Cylinder 1 fuel table. Right click inside it. Select Paste. Then Send the map into the unit. You now have a cylinder advanced map with two separate fuel tables in your Power Commander"

I'm confused a little about this product now because, 1.) I need to do more reading. 2) I thought I read were folks un-plug their 02 sensors when using this product.

**********************************************************************

Does any one have any good links for someone just learning about the AT, for instance:

1.) The proper recommended way how is it used?
2.) Which is more applicable to Victory's: The Dyno jet or AT?
3.) Are the other products that are required to use this AT product.
4.) Links to posts where folks really have a great understanding on how to properly use this product and take full advantage of it.

I don't have a motorcycle yet but am planning on a Victory in the next few months, have to wait due to several personal circumstances. I'm hoping by the end of June at the latest unless I decide to wait for a 2013 model.

Thanks for you time and input, I'll be doing a lot of reading starting now.
 

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Actually, I started with the M19-002-003 map from dynojet which is for a 2011 106 c.i. with performance exhaust and air filter. It doesn't look much like it now though.

Generally I lean around .5 or so. Sometimes more than that if I think it's a real problem. I wouldn't get bummed at the AT. It's frustrating at first until you get a feel for what it's doing. Once you realize how the system works and what each table is telling you about your performance, it's pretty straightforward figuring out what and how much you want to change something.

Here's a jpeg of an older map I was using. I've modified it somewhat but you can compare it to yours. My current AFR map is a bit leaner at the lower RPM and throttle positions as most of my driving in the local area is 45 - 60 stop and go. That makes the bike more responsive. Hope that helps.

Generally I don't mess with the idle positions on the AFR map. I have slightly richened some entries on the fuel map to stop the decel popping.
Thanks much DD. I'll try this AFR for a while and see how it does. It's much richer than what I'm running now which is probably better since we are going into our hot months now anyway.

It's also much richer than anything we might see on a Harley. I only compare the two because of the basic air-cooled engine config. Thanks again!

Edit: After comparing your older AFR map to one Ashmostro published some time back; I see a strong resemblance. Also; after looking at my current AFR map I realized I was trying to go as lean as possible during the Winter months to get some better gas mileage out of it. I think I'm just going to have to suffer some gas mileage to get the motor to run the way it's supposed to. At least that's what I'm hoping until I can ride it for a bit to see how it runs now.
 

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Does any one have any good links for someone just learning about the AT, for instance:

1.) The proper recommended way how is it used?
2.) Which is more applicable to Victory's: The Dyno jet or AT?
3.) Are the other products that are required to use this AT product.
4.) Links to posts where folks really have a great understanding on how to properly use this product and take full advantage of it.
1. I think there's a wide variety of ways the AT can be used. The GENERALLY ACCEPTED way is to have a base fuel map and set up the AT AFRs, ride a variety of speeds and situations and let the AT make corrections in the trim tables. Examine the trims and see if anything looks weird (really large trim numbers). If it does, make corrections to the AFR table and ride some more. Once it appears to be relatively stable, apply it to the fuel tables. REPEAT until you're happy with the performance and fuel mileage.

2. Not sure what you're asking here. Dynojet is the company that makes Power Commander and Autotune which is an add-on to the Power Commander. It's applicable to any fuel injected motorcycle that has a closed loop system. Victory is just one of a number of bikes that Dynojet makes the PCV and AT for.

3. No. However, when and if you add other performance products (cams, pipes, air intakes, etc.) you will need to probably make adjustments again to your AT AFR's and tune it for the new stuff. However, you don't need to get your ECM flashed. PCV and AT take the place of that.

4. I'd just stick around this forum. There's plenty of folks here using these products and a wealth of good info on them.
 

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I have PCV with AT installed on my '12 XCT, Lloydz VM-1DR cams, D&D exhaust, air seal removed, and vic performance air filter installed. I would accept trims all the time, never truely happy with it.

Then I had a dyno tune performed, with 14.1 cruise and 13.9 or so most other tables. My AT table was setup the same as dyno used. I stopped accepting trims; left AT on and allowed it to keep writing up to 10% or so. With-in four or five tanks of fuel, I noticed bike wasn't popping as much. Now it's been 5,000 miles since dyno tune 5 months ago and I'm a happy camper. I still haven't accepted any trims or changed any AFR values in table. My bike seldom pops, usually on within the first couple of minutes riding.

Start with a good map, have an AFR table similar to the one used to create map, and stop accepting trims so often. Maybe accept trims once out of every 1,000 miles or so. By all means, if it's a custom MAP from a DYNO for your bike, then keep an unedited version somewhere that trims were not accepted on.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Let me preface the following by saying I noticed an occasional drip coming from what appeared to be the primary area, took it to the dealer, found out the main bearings were shot (still under warranty) so while they are fixing it they approached me about getting the Lloydz 116 Big Bore kit done since it wouldn't cost me anything for labor, so I said hell yeah! But, I am still wondering if the problem I was having was operator error, or possibly the AT malfunctioning? And now to try and find a decent base map to work off of when I get the bike back with the 116 kit........... The joys of ownership :D
 

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Actually, I started with the M19-002-003 map from dynojet which is for a 2011 106 c.i. with performance exhaust and air filter. It doesn't look much like it now though.

Generally I lean around .5 or so. Sometimes more than that if I think it's a real problem. I wouldn't get bummed at the AT. It's frustrating at first until you get a feel for what it's doing. Once you realize how the system works and what each table is telling you about your performance, it's pretty straightforward figuring out what and how much you want to change something.

Here's a jpeg of an older map I was using. I've modified it somewhat but you can compare it to yours. My current AFR map is a bit leaner at the lower RPM and throttle positions as most of my driving in the local area is 45 - 60 stop and go. That makes the bike more responsive. Hope that helps.

Generally I don't mess with the idle positions on the AFR map. I have slightly richened some entries on the fuel map to stop the decel popping.
Ok. Some good news on this for a change.

DD; you inspired me to take a new and fresh look at what I was doing and go over the hardware at the same time. I called Fuelmoto and they didn't really have much more info to offer but did kind of stimulate a couple of brain cells to look a little deeper into the wiring config.

While doing that I had the laptop hooked up via the usb to mini-usb connection on the PC-V. As I was going through some wire jiggling and stuff; I noticed the AT unit would kick out. Blinking red light is what it does when the bike is warming up then it goes to a solid red which means everything is ok but it would kick into blinking red sometimes after or during the jiggling of the wires to the AT.

Here's where I tell you I'm an idiot and think I screwed up because of my history as an IT Tech. On a computer we always leave usb cables hooked up whether they are plugged into anything or not. Well, that's all fine and dandy on a stationary, not moving computer but on something like the bike that moves with every bump and vibrates; not so much.

I think, and so far it seems to be true, that by leaving the usb wire hooked up into the PC-V unit; it caused a surge or, heck, not sure what else to call it other than something that created a pulse through the ignition system causing things to go haywire. It even caused the bike to die while was letting it idle and checking things out. It also happened a couple of times on the road but I thought it was the AT unit because after unplugging the AT unit it would run ok.

My thought, maybe I'm wrong but I have a strong feeling I'm right on this one, is the AT unit caused some kind of feed back through the ignition system causing the ECM to do what it was programmed to do and that was to shut the ignition down to prevent damage to the motor or other electrical parts.

The fix, of course, was simply to disconnect the usb cable from the PC-V. So far so good and the bike is running fantastic now.

Ultimately this may simply be operator error. That's short for me effing up by not knowing better than to unplug the usb cable, or rather, not knowing it could make a difference.

I'll post back after putting some more miles on the bike but I think this dilemma is finally solved for me. Thank the heavens!!

And thank you DD for the inspiration to take a fresh look at it again!!
 

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Ok. Some good news on this for a change.

While doing that I had the laptop hooked up via the usb to mini-usb connection on the PC-V. As I was going through some wire jiggling and stuff; I noticed the AT unit would kick out. Blinking red light is what it does when the bike is warming up then it goes to a solid red which means everything is ok but it would kick into blinking red sometimes after or during the jiggling of the wires to the AT.
I don't know if it was the USB in some kind of feedback as much as the USB applying enough pressure to cause the connections from the PCV to the AT to intermittently disconnect. Just to be safe you might want to double check the wires that connect into the PCV unit. The way those wires connect into those little holes in the unit is a bit flaky and it's not unusual to find one of them that are just barely making the connection.
 

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Hi Bob,

What you are describing makes sense. I too come from an IT background and I can share my findings:

Static discharge is a bitch. I've left USB cables plugged into desktops and laptops before. If I came into contact with the bare metal connector, and I discharged static, the machine would sometimes just lockup. Not all the time, just sometimes. Took me forever to figure out why my machine was locking up and had to be rebooted. Disco the USB, all is good. So in your case I think it's the same thing. Except you are not touch the connecter, maybe something else is while going down the road. I see you live in AZ as well. Knowing you live in the driest, dustiest, and lately pretty windy region; these are all great ingredients for static and it's discharge. Sounds to me that the wind from riding, combined with our dry state was building up static and it would only take a close proximity between the connector and any metal surface to discharge. This could easily cause the AT and/or the PCV to essentially "reboot" and cause the lights on the AT to flash, just like when you start the bike.

Might be a stretch, but that's my .2
 

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USB Cable, BBob onto something

I have PCV with AT installed on my '12 XCT, Lloydz VM-1DR cams, D&D exhaust, air seal removed, and vic performance air filter installed. I would accept trims all the time, never truely happy with it.
Then I had a dyno tune performed, with 14.1 cruise and 13.9 or so most other tables. My AT table was setup the same as dyno used. I stopped accepting trims; left AT on and allowed it to keep writing up to 10% or so. With-in four or five tanks of fuel, I noticed bike wasn't popping as much. Now it's been 5,000 miles since dyno tune 5 months ago and I'm a happy camper. I still haven't accepted any trims or changed any AFR values in table. My bike seldom pops, usually on within the first couple of minutes riding.
Hey BBob, I had USB cable plugged in, routed behind left cover, and coiled up underneath passenger sheepskin from the time I purchased my bike until I had it Dyno'd. Shortly after Dyno is when I decided to stop accepting trims so I removed the USB cable. Coincidense?
 

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1. I think there's a wide variety of ways the AT can be used. The GENERALLY ACCEPTED way is to have a base fuel map and set up the AT AFRs, ride a variety of speeds and situations and let the AT make corrections in the trim tables. Examine the trims and see if anything looks weird (really large trim numbers). If it does, make corrections to the AFR table and ride some more. Once it appears to be relatively stable, apply it to the fuel tables. REPEAT until you're happy with the performance and fuel mileage.

2. Not sure what you're asking here. Dynojet is the company that makes Power Commander and Autotune which is an add-on to the Power Commander. It's applicable to any fuel injected motorcycle that has a closed loop system. Victory is just one of a number of bikes that Dynojet makes the PCV and AT for.

3. No. However, when and if you add other performance products (cams, pipes, air intakes, etc.) you will need to probably make adjustments again to your AT AFR's and tune it for the new stuff. However, you don't need to get your ECM flashed. PCV and AT take the place of that.

4. I'd just stick around this forum. There's plenty of folks here using these products and a wealth of good info on them.
Thanks for your input and you straightened me out on some of my cofunsion.
 

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So the consensus here is that the Micro-USB interface should not be left plugged in? Im finalizing my install this week and planned to leave it accessible w/ out removing the seat.
 
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