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Are the plugs showing a rich condition? These are both from the front cylinder but the rear looked exactly the same. It was dry sooting not wet but it has been almost a week since she was run.
Thanks guys


 

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rich, did it idle for any amount of time before getting shut down the last time?


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put new plugs in , run it hard up to a high gear , when its pulling hard in say 5th kill the motor and pull the clutch in at the same time,
Roll to a stop then pull the plugs and show us.
That's a plug chop.
anything else is pissing in the wind.
 

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but if you put new ngks in they may take a while to color , so dont panic if they are white.


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It is impossible to "read plugs" and get an accurate determination of what air/fuel your bike is at. A bike may vary from very rich, to very lean, and back to pig rich again all depending on load, speed, rpm, weather, oil temp, etc.

From the looks of your plugs you are not getting the bike up to operating temperature.

If you really want to know what your engine is doing try this: http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/MTXL.php
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Good point....It did idle for a few minutes while I was opening the garage and parking it so no sense inreading it. Got ya
 

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if you want a good read you have to do chops like mentioned, get it warmed up good, go out on a long stretch of highway, hold the throttle at the same speed for several miles, pull clutch, hold throttle, kill at same time, coast to a stop, pull plugs , that will give the best read of that throttle position, so do it at a speed you generally run , these bikes are rich on the bottom end and at idle so if you rode it slow to the garage and it idled, they will be black.


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put new plugs in , run it hard up to a high gear , when its pulling hard in say 5th kill the motor and pull the clutch in at the same time,
Roll to a stop then pull the plugs and show us.
That's a plug chop.
anything else is pissing in the wind.
That is sooo cool, never knew that ..

I checked my plugs when still stock I just ride for half a day, "not slow but normal hard acceleration for half a day" and when switch off the bike NO idling.... but your way is cool too

my plugs were all grey / white so I decided to put more fuel and air into the motor
 

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I know from watching my bike being tuned that a slight change in throttle position and RPM has an effect of fuel mixture not like the old carburetor days.
 

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It is impossible to "read plugs" and get an accurate determination of what air/fuel your bike is at. A bike may vary from very rich, to very lean, and back to pig rich again all depending on load, speed, rpm, weather, oil temp, etc.

From the looks of your plugs you are not getting the bike up to operating temperature.

If you really want to know what your engine is doing try this: http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/MTXL.php
Hey Rylan, you didn't tell Vission Johnny that if you get 45mpg on any Vic that you are too lean and burning up your exhaust valves did ya? He's driving me up the wall spouting that all over the forum as if it's just that cut and dry. Many chime in about a head wind, tail wind, weight of bike, weight of rider, temperature, aerodynamics of bike, etc that each of these can affect your mpg. Yet he keeps saying stuff like "if you got 45 mpg on your little trip then you are way too lean and burning up exhaust valves". Oh yeah, did we mention we had a 15 mph tail wind. "you're burning up exhaust valves". VJ, we were going down hill, "you're burning up exhaust valves". :crzy: He's sticking to this 45 mpg thing like that's the magic line under any circumstance that you're ruining your motor. Say it aint so...
 

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Hey Rylan, you didn't tell Vission Johnny that if you get 45mpg on any Vic that you are too lean and burning up your exhaust valves did ya? He's driving me up the wall spouting that all over the forum as if it's just that cut and dry. Many chime in about a head wind, tail wind, weight of bike, weight of rider, temperature, aerodynamics of bike, etc that each of these can affect your mpg. Yet he keeps saying stuff like "if you got 45 mpg on your little trip then you are way too lean and burning up exhaust valves". Oh yeah, did we mention we had a 15 mph tail wind. "you're burning up exhaust valves". VJ, we were going down hill, "you're burning up exhaust valves". :crzy: He's sticking to this 45 mpg thing like that's the magic line under any circumstance that you're ruining your motor. Say it aint so...
As with anything in life, one can't just make a blanket statement like "in ALL cases ANYTHING over 45 is just too lean".
I've seen 130hp big bore motors that will pull down 45 mpg in perfect conditions because they've been tuned properly. Then again we've pulled apart a bunch of stock motors with cratered exhaust valves and blackened pistons that were running 45mpg or better.

It goes back to what I keep telling people. In stock form a Vic (especially 08+) will run super lean at cruise and super rich at high load conditions. That is one reason you can't really read the plugs to determine the TOTAL state of your tune. The plugs only tell a small amount to the total tune.

So how can one bike with 130hp and a tuner get the same mileage as a stock bike? Because we've added (for example) 20% more fuel at cruise so the motor doesn't damage itself, and leaned out (for example) 20% of the un-needed fuel in the higher rev/load conditions. Take a look at a typical Power Commander map for a cammed new bike, it is not uncommon for there to be +20's and -20's on the same map.

When I get some more time I'll post some pics of some spark plugs. One from my 130hp Vision, and another from a 2008 with 20psi fuel pressure and a hole in the intake so big I could stick my finger in - they look the same. One bike was tuned perfectly and makes 45 more horsepower than stock, the other would hardly run. I get calls all the time from guys with messed up bikes…"but the plugs look fine!"
 

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As with anything in life, one can't just make a blanket statement like "in ALL cases ANYTHING over 45 is just too lean".
I've seen 130hp big bore motors that will pull down 45 mpg in perfect conditions because they've been tuned properly. Then again we've pulled apart a bunch of stock motors with cratered exhaust valves and blackened pistons that were running 45mpg or better.

It goes back to what I keep telling people. In stock form a Vic (especially 08+) will run super lean at cruise and super rich at high load conditions. That is one reason you can't really read the plugs to determine the TOTAL state of your tune. The plugs only tell a small amount to the total tune.

So how can one bike with 130hp and a tuner get the same mileage as a stock bike? Because we've added (for example) 20% more fuel at cruise so the motor doesn't damage itself, and leaned out (for example) 20% of the un-needed fuel in the higher rev/load conditions. Take a look at a typical Power Commander map for a cammed new bike, it is not uncommon for there to be +20's and -20's on the same map.

When I get some more time I'll post some pics of some spark plugs. One from my 130hp Vision, and another from a 2008 with 20psi fuel pressure and a hole in the intake so big I could stick my finger in - they look the same. One bike was tuned perfectly and makes 45 more horsepower than stock, the other would hardly run. I get calls all the time from guys with messed up bikes…"but the plugs look fine!"
I appreciate the reply. Your response makes perfect sense and supports the sentiment that you can't just say "anything over X = X", as you say, blanket everything by one statement. There are so many factors to take in regarding mpg, lean, rich, etc.
 

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huh?

Read the writing in this link, its from 1977 when there was lead in the gasoline.
Unless you have a secret source of leaded fuel this can all be thrown out the window.
Not to challenge your knowledge of plugs and the interpretation of reading them, Please enlighten me as to why this is relevant? rich is rich and lean is lean so other than a possible slight non noticeable difference I'm not sure why leaded or unleaded might change the plug color or carbon build-up chart comparison. If it is wrong I will stop using the chart, I just need to understand why it is wrong.
:confused:
Teach me.
 

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A lot of the color in the older plug was the way tetra-ethyl lead left behind deposits.Uber lean it came out almost white, reasonable mix it was a light tan and rich it came out fairly dark. The fuel we burn these days only gives slight shading changes from white to a light tan as you vary the mix. The problem with older color comparisons is that color not only reflects the fuel / air mix but the fuel itself. Around here we all burn 10% corn so I doubt my color here is the same as it would be in some place where they still sell real gasoline. A/F is only one contributor to color.
The real way to read plugs back then was to install new plugs, run the engine hard until up to speed and shut off the ignition. At that point you could tell how your carburetor was doing and rejet as needed. A fuel injected, electronically controlled engine is not the same as a carbureted engine running WOT on the mains.
 

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Not to challenge your knowledge of plugs and the interpretation of reading them, Please enlighten me as to why this is relevant? rich is rich and lean is lean so other than a possible slight non noticeable difference I'm not sure why leaded or unleaded might change the plug color or carbon build-up chart comparison. If it is wrong I will stop using the chart, I just need to understand why it is wrong.
:confused:
Teach me.
Oldman47's basically covered it.
 

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So is there a correct chart to reference for unleaded gas?
Anyone seen one?
 
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