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Hey, I been thinking. Since you can't find any lab results anywhere actually showing real, scientific numbers supporting all of Redline's claims. And since I'm here telling everybody that based on the two lab results I did find that tested Redline, and it didn't perform near as well as it claimed...I'm willing to pay for your lab test if I'm wrong. You say you drain and change at 15k right? Contact the Amsoil guy here on the forum (Bob) and order the oil analysis kit. Don't worry, it's not a set up. My numbers weren't great at 4,700 miles with Amsoil and they claim I can get 10k. In fact, they recommended I change oil before the 4,700 miles. So that's proof it's not rigged for Amsoil. Anyway, it'll set you back about $25 up front. It comes postage paid. At 15k, put your sample in the bottle and ship it out. When the results come back, post it on this forum. If it tests good in all categories, I'll reimburse you the $25 for putting you through the trouble when you were right all along. If the test show you should have changed long ago, then your $25 was well spent. What do you think?

Personally, I think no matter how good an oil is, the bike can't go 15k. You have fuel contamination, oxidation, wear metals etc. Which by the way will show up on the report.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Hey, I been thinking. Since you can't find any lab results anywhere actually showing real, scientific numbers supporting all of Redline's claims. And since I'm here telling everybody that based on the two lab results I did find that tested Redline, and it didn't perform near as well as it claimed...I'm willing to pay for your lab test if I'm wrong. You say you drain and change at 15k right? Contact the Amsoil guy here on the forum (Bob) and order the oil analysis kit. Don't worry, it's not a set up. My numbers weren't great at 4,700 miles with Amsoil and they claim I can get 10k. In fact, they recommended I change oil before the 4,700 miles. So that's proof it's not rigged for Amsoil. Anyway, it'll set you back about $25 up front. It comes postage paid. At 15k, put your sample in the bottle and ship it out. When the results come back, post it on this forum. If it tests good in all categories, I'll reimburse you the $25 for putting you through the trouble when you were right all along. If the test show you should have changed long ago, then your $25 was well spent. What do you think?

Personally, I think no matter how good an oil is, the bike can't go 15k. You have fuel contamination, oxidation, wear metals etc. Which by the way will show up on the report.
Where did I say I was putting 15,000 mile on a single oil change? I said my next oil change is at 15,000 miles, in other words my Victory will have 15,000 miles on it at that time. I change the oil at the Victory stated 5,000 mile intervals.
 

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Where did I say I was putting 15,000 mile on a single oil change? I said my next oil change is at 15,000 miles, in other words my Victory will have 15,000 miles on it at that time. I change the oil at the Victory stated 5,000 mile intervals.
"I will not be draining the redline until the 15,000 mile mark at the next scheduled oil change and I will replace it with......Redline oil and another Mobil 1 filter."

Ahh, I took your above statement as you were putting 15,000 miles on the oil (which would be nutts ;) ) 5K makes sense

So far, I've not been able to get a solid lab test back with 5k. I tried 4,300 miles on Vic oil and 4,700 with Amsoil. It's not so much the oil giving me the trouble it's other factors. With the Vic it was fuel contamination and with Amsoil it was oxidation. The oils I think would hold up to 5k but the bike won't let it. Maybe now that it's fully broke in, I can get 5k. If not, it's to cheap oil and 3k.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
OK so what you smart people are saying is... it doesn't matter just use something.

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I never bashed Amsoil or any other synthetic. But to answer your question yes as long as you change it when needed you can run what you want.

I am finding that the Redline works great for me exceeding the Castrol RS V-Twin oil I had been using.

I would like to point out that while I have posted links to different sites and posted quotes from sites not aligned with Redline all the other two have posted are links from Amsoil. Now I don't know about you but don't you think that Amsoil might be a little biased in what they write?
 

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Discussion Starter #26
I did not want to do this but I feel my hand has been forced.

Here is the real truth to the Amsoil tests that get shown off by Amsoil and their followers/dealers.

https://www.facebook.com/OfficialRoyalPurple/posts/454720231257493

This is from not Redline but from Royal Purple a product that I also use in my boat engine and my pick up truck.

Royal Purple sets the record straight about the lab test that RebelBiker is crowing about. Once you read how Amsoil really is testing oil you will see there is really nothing for them to brag about. Royal Purple showing their class still says that Amsoil is a good product but they set the record straight about the bogus lab tests that Amsoil toots their horn about.

Here is the Royal Purple response from the above link:

A repost from earlier regarding a facebooker who was bashing on Royal Purple and stating Amsoil was better. We wanted you to still have access to the information.

Let’s start with any synthetic motor oil that you choose will benefit you vehicle better than conventional motor oil whether you choose Royal Purple, Mobil 1, or Amsoil, but Royal Purple can offer you something a little more.

Amsoil doesn’t have any 3rd party independent studies done that show their product out performs ours and the ones they do claim are conducted by dealers or their own labs. Amsoil’s test are conducted under their supervision with their people running the test, but the lab sounds like an independent lab in the way it is presented. A key example of this is the 4 ball wear test.

The ASTM D4172 Test (4 ball wear test) is NOT an accepted engine oil test nor indicative of actual field wear performance for engine oils. Per the ASTM 'Significance of Use description", the ASTM declares that there is no correlation between oils of different formulas or to actual field wear data. This test was designed to quickly compare 'batch to batch' quality of the exact same formula of oil during production.

Amsoil also has a bad habit of claiming ASTM, API acceptance and/or test protocol and then modifying the test in-house. The ASTM D4172 should run at 1200 rpm and 75 C. Amsoil ran it at 1800 rpm and 150 C. At that point, it becomes an 'Amsoil' in-house test, not an ASTM repeatable test. Why did they modify the test? To make their oils 'look' better? Amsoil has taken this test and made it a big selling point and consumers have no idea what the test was intended for. Amsoil also has a bad habit of claiming ASTM or API acceptance or test protocol and then modifying the test in-house. They also do not run the ASTM Timken OK Load test - the RP oils would score first in this test having 300-400% better performance than the others.

Amsoil's typical miss-interpretation of results can even be found in their own reports. They test regarding film strength si not about film strength but is about wear.

They have even shown where Royal Purple has the highest rating for wear protection in the FZG test and highest rating for oxidation protection, but yet they score Royal Purple the worst in a 'wear test'. Why, How? Amsoil will not report on Royal Purple’s Oxidation resistance in a TFOUT test. WHY, because Royal Purple will actual tests out to 1300 minutes and is 2 ½ times better than theirs! They arbitrarily stopped the test at 500 minutes. We also had some of the best results in the cleanliness results for keeping your engine free of deposits and corrosion and zero foaming yet they claim we failed a rust protection test? Confusing - hard to judge as they do not share the actual coupon of the metal - just report a failure and they also will not state how many coupons they ran with each oil - or did they run the test until they got a 'failing' one and reported it?

Why does Amsoil have it out for Royal Purple? How Could someone mess up these results? EASY, at the end of all of the studies you will usually one or both of the following names

Dave Leitten- AMSOIL Laboratory Director and Kevin Dinwiddie - AMSOIL Drivetrain Specialist

They work for Amsoil and every test run and distributed that Amsoil was ranked number 1 is done internally. It does appear there was no favoritism to their company? Not really

Just thought we would clear some of the air.

We still refer back that Amsoil makes a great product, but Royal Purple can and does things better and different than they do.

Have a nice day.
 

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You are wrong. I posted two lab results, ONE came from amsoil website. The other had nothing to do with amsoil...you musta just made that up to suit you. Stick to the truth...no need to lie on here.

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Discussion Starter #28
You are wrong. I posted two lab results, ONE came from amsoil website. The other had nothing to do with amsoil...you musta just made that up to suit you. Stick to the truth...no need to lie on here.

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No answer to what Royal Purple exposed I see.

The two links I opened one from you and one from another poster that you said proved that Group 5 oils can't be used in gas engines both went right to Amsoil dealer pages. Not very credible and really not credible after reading what Royal Purple exposed about Amsoil's sloppy bogus testing.

You done with the insults yet? Oh wait that was all in the PM you sent. Grow up. You don't like Redline don't buy it. But stop with your outright lies about the product. Redline has been selling group 5 motor oils for over 30 years, I think Redline's credibility is much better then is yours.
 

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You are the liar...folks can read for themselves. You just said everthing i posted came from amsoil. Now your saying one of my links and another members post were from amsoil. What about the very first lab result i posted? The one that showed redline fail...the one that had nothing to do with amsoil. Was this not included when you said that everything i posted came from amsoil? Of corse it did. You just got caught in another lie. Just like your claim of my original comment. You keep stetching that one with each time you bring it up. I said that group 5 oils weren't best suited for gas engines. That group 3 and 4 are better suited. I said group 5 MAY cost you an engine. Then i posted lab results that were NOT from amsoil that showed your redline fail while the group 3 and 4 did better. You don't like that...fine. but now you claim i daid redline will blow your engine up. You lie again. What is your agenda? Do you stock the redline oil shelves for a living or something? All through this, i keep asking you for lab results that show how well this oil did. And you can't put anything on the table but lies and a bunch of articles with "he said she said". Are you for real? Lol wow

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Come on lets leave the bitching at each other to the political threads.

I had a 1979 Superglide that I rode 19 years and 167,000 miles and all I ran in it was Harley 50wt and had zero engine problems and no rebuilds so none of this really matters anyway and that's why I use $12.00 a 4qt jug of Rotella and have good to excellent lab results from it.

Use name brand and change it every 5,000 and you're good to go.
 

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....well so are oil debates but I find endless fun with them. :D
Sure, as long as they don't get out of hand like this one has. Have you looked at the huge supply of vic analysis on the website roadkill posted on my Amsoil analysis thread? You probably have enough experience with lab results to know how to get the best results. I on the other hand, learned a lot from other people's results. Very informative. I'm about 90% sure now that I'm going to go with your T and change at 3k...or at least test it at 3k.
 

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Sure, as long as they don't get out of hand like this one has. Have you looked at the huge supply of vic analysis on the website roadkill posted on my Amsoil analysis thread? You probably have enough experience with lab results to know how to get the best results. I on the other hand, learned a lot from other people's results. Very informative. I'm about 90% sure now that I'm going to go with your T and change at 3k...or at least test it at 3k.
There is a TON of info there.

If you're only going 3000 then why not and yea get a test you might be surprised in a good way.
 

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There is a TON of info there.

If you're only going 3000 then why not and yea get a test you might be surprised in a good way.
I have an analysis kit sitting in my garage that I was going to use at 4,700 with the Amsoil I just put in. BUT now that I know my short 9 mile rides to and from work every day is the cause of my higher fuel contamination, I know I can't get high mileage out of any oil. So...I'll change it around 3k or maybe a little after then just use my prepaid analysis kit to test the T at 3k. That should give me a very good idea of where my OCI needs to be.
If I only rode on longer weekend rides then I'm sure I could get pretty far with top shelf oils but my short commutes ruins any chance of that.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
I have an analysis kit sitting in my garage that I was going to use at 4,700 with the Amsoil I just put in. BUT now that I know my short 9 mile rides to and from work every day is the cause of my higher fuel contamination, I know I can't get high mileage out of any oil. So...I'll change it around 3k or maybe a little after then just use my prepaid analysis kit to test the T at 3k. That should give me a very good idea of where my OCI needs to be.
If I only rode on longer weekend rides then I'm sure I could get pretty far with top shelf oils but my short commutes ruins any chance of that.
After you read this you will be running out and draining that Amsoil from your motorcycle:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=259425

LOL, after all is that not what you claimed about Redline?
 

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Discussion Starter #37 (Edited)
Come on lets leave the bitching at each other to the political threads.

I had a 1979 Superglide that I rode 19 years and 167,000 miles and all I ran in it was Harley 50wt and had zero engine problems and no rebuilds so none of this really matters anyway and that's why I use $12.00 a 4qt jug of Rotella and have good to excellent lab results from it.

Use name brand and change it every 5,000 and you're good to go.
I am not the one who attacked the brand of oil. If you want to use Amsoil that is your right I could care less. I did after the attacks on Redline post information about the bogus testing Amsoil crows about.

The fact is you would be hard pressed to find reports of oil related engine failures from any brand of oil that was used as it is intended and followed the manufactures oil change schedule.

That does not mean that certain oils cannot offer benefits over other oils. In my case I feel less engine heat with the Redline so it is working well to pull heat from the engine and also I have noticed that I feel less vibration through the handle bars and grips and my right hand no longer tingles or goes numb after extended riding. Those are a couple of benefits I have found in using the Redline. I shared that with the forum so others who might want to try another oil have another choice to think about.

Oil threads almost always go nuclear when the Amsoil crowd shows up.

I did not trash Rebel's choice of Amsoil in his thread, someone asked a question and I answered with what I was using and the results I was getting. Rebel went crazy over it. He has called me a liar, and a fool and I think even stupid.

I posted the Royal Purple response to the way Amsoil does its testing and I posted a link to another piece that mentioned Redline and again took Amsoil to task over their testing methods.

I am still waiting for Rebel to provide his proof that Group 5 synthetic motor oils cause engines to blow up like he claimed. Redline, Motul and even Mobil would be very interested to know about this I am sure as those three make Group 5 synthetic oils with Motul and Redline at the front of the pack. All he could produce is a piece that when I opened the link it was from an Amsoil site that claimed Group 5 synthetics were only good for lubing a compressor and a hand full of other things. Again I am sure Redline, Motul and Mobil would not agree with the Amsoil site.

Use what makes you feel good, right now Redline makes me feel good from the positive results I am getting on my Victory. I have no dog in what brand of class of oil anyone else wants to use.

The funny thing is I bet RebelBiker has never used Redline oil in his life.
 

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I am not the one who attacked the brand of oil. If you want to use Amsoil that is your right I could care less. I did after the attacks on Redline post information about the bogus testing Amsoil crows about.

The fact is you would be hard pressed to find reports of oil related engine failures from any brand of oil that was used as it is intended and followed the manufactures oil change schedule.

That does not mean that certain oils cannot offer benefits over other oils. In my case I feel less engine heat with the Redline so it is working well to pull heat from the engine and also I have noticed that I feel less vibration through the handle bars and grips and my right hand no longer tingles or goes numb after extended riding. Those are a couple of benefits I have found in using the Redline. I shared that with the forum so others who might want to try another oil have another choice to think about.

Oil threads almost always go nuclear when the Amsoil crowd shows up.

I did not trash Rebel's choice of Amsoil in his thread, someone asked a question and I answered with what I was using and the results I was getting. Rebel went crazy over it. He has called me a liar, and a fool and I think even stupid.

I posted the Royal Purple response to the way Amsoil does its testing and I posted a link to another piece that mentioned Redline and again took Amsoil to task over their testing methods.

I am still waiting for Rebel to provide his proof that Group 5 synthetic motor oils cause engines to blow up like he claimed. Redline, Motul and even Mobil would be very interested to know about this I am sure as those three make Group 5 synthetic oils with Motul and Redline at the front of the pack. All he could produce is a piece that when I opened the link it was from an Amsoil site that claimed Group 5 synthetics were only good for lubing a compressor and a hand full of other things. Again I am sure Redline, Motul and Mobil would not agree with the Amsoil site.

Use what makes you feel good, right now Redline makes me feel good from the positive results I am getting on my Victory. I have no dog in what brand of class of oil anyone else wants to use.

The funny thing is I bet RebelBiker has never used Redline oil in his life.
Cool feature here is the P.M. when tempers flair and the rest of us get tired of the bickering you take the argument behind the scenes and message each other. Seems it's a topic you can't give up after he said in public about the argument "it's stupid".

Take a beep breath and let it go.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
You are the liar...folks can read for themselves. You just said everthing i posted came from amsoil. Now your saying one of my links and another members post were from amsoil. What about the very first lab result i posted? The one that showed redline fail...the one that had nothing to do with amsoil. Was this not included when you said that everything i posted came from amsoil? Of corse it did. You just got caught in another lie. Just like your claim of my original comment. You keep stetching that one with each time you bring it up. I said that group 5 oils weren't best suited for gas engines. That group 3 and 4 are better suited. I said group 5 MAY cost you an engine. Then i posted lab results that were NOT from amsoil that showed your redline fail while the group 3 and 4 did better. You don't like that...fine. but now you claim i daid redline will blow your engine up. You lie again. What is your agenda? Do you stock the redline oil shelves for a living or something? All through this, i keep asking you for lab results that show how well this oil did. And you can't put anything on the table but lies and a bunch of articles with "he said she said". Are you for real? Lol wow

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I opened two links one was from you and one was from the other poster both links went to an Amsoil dealers site. I could care less about reading the Amsoil propaganda and closed both links.

Funny how you spout the Amsoil propaganda sites as unbiased fact and when I supply links and posts one from Royal Purple another that referenced Redline with both calling into question the testing methods used by Amsoil you say I am just a liar and provide no argument. So Royal Purple and Redline questioning the testing and even explaining why the testing is bogus you ignore but when Amsoil says their oil beat the others that is the gospel never to be questioned even as we have now found out that Amsoil has never used an independent lab but instead conducted these tests on their own and changed the guidelines on how the tests are supposed to be conducted and it has been pointed out that Amsoil goes to the extent of formulating their oil to do good in their chosen test but that ingredient they add to do so well in their own tests burns off quickly when used in a real engine.

The 4 balls test was not designed to test how well automotive engine oil works. Dawn Dish soap does well on the 4 ball test and it is also said that Coke also does well in the 4 ball test, maybe you should run out and buy a case of Coke or Dawn dish soap when they are on sale after all they say both of them do great in the 4 ball wear test.

Here is a fact for you every oil made has good lab reports when sent off and bad lab reports when sent off. You said your own Amsoil did not hold up well in a lab report.

I will not tell anyone not to buy Amsoil, they make good oils just like the rest but they go over the top with bogus tests that have no bearing on how well an oil will work in a real combustion engine.

The only one who seems to have a problem with brands of oil is you my friend.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Cool feature here is the P.M. when tempers flair and the rest of us get tired of the bickering you take the argument behind the scenes and message each other. Seems it's a topic you can't give up after he said in public about the argument "it's stupid".

Take a beep breath and let it go.
You want to know another cool feature of this forum? You don't have open any thread you don't want to and you are not forced to read any post within a thread that you don't want to.

Funny how that works.
 
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