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Discussion Starter #1
I've had the mapping upgraded to stage 1 at a victory shop a couple of weeks ago and I noticed that the rpm take ages to go down to idle while decelerating.

I need to use the brakes a lot more than before. at the beginning I wasn't used to that I felt it was even dangerous in the traffic.

a friend with a HB 2012 has the same issue. he believes it comes from the exhaust which is not a stage 1 exhaust from victory.

I think it comes from a bad mapping from victory. have any of you experienced this?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
issue only happens when the engine is hot.

when I release the throttle, rpm goes up just a bit and then stabilises for a second and then finally goes down but very, very slowly compared to before stage 1.
almost no engine brake.

can someone confirm that it cannot have anything to do with the exhaust?

the dealer asked victory but they did not come back on this yet. any insight would be much appreciated.
 

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Just reconfirms that Vic stage 1 is garbage and a waste of your hard earned dollars... Get a fuel controller and the problem will disappear.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I know that. the reason I did not go for a pcv is that it needs to be tuned and I don't think anybody around would be able to do that. Victory makes its way in Europe, but to find a victory tuner specialist I believe it needs some more time.

if nothing comes from victory I plan on removing it.

I would like at least to be sure it cannot be linked to the exhaust.
 

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The download might not of been loaded correct.
Stage 1 adds 2% more fuel and 2% more timing.
Exhaust has nothing to do with it.
Your cables might not be on the wheel correctly. Pull right hand cheese wedges and twist the throttle and see if the cable are tracking correct.
No need for motor to be running
 

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Discussion Starter #8
thanks John.
I checked the cables, they look ok. nothing changed there before/after the upload of the stage 1.
ill ask them to reflash. if it does not work I'll simply ask them to remove it and for a refund.

some are very happy with stage 1, apart from this issue, I don't see a huge difference over stock.
 

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Hi.
Are you saying you are running just the head pipes with the cats and no mufflers at all without a fuel adder of any sort? Just curious...
 

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for now leave the flash alone.
Say when this not returning is the cable sticking or the grip.

If the the throttle is not returning it might be that you need to take the grip off and clean it and put a coating of grease on the handlebar.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
for now leave the flash alone.
Say when this not returning is the cable sticking or the grip.

If the the throttle is not returning it might be that you need to take the grip off and clean it and put a coating of grease on the handlebar.
It's definitely not the cable. I'll check that with the shop on Saturday. I go to a biker meeting in the alps the weekend after, I might remove it before coz it's so annoying, especially in the traffic at low speeds.
 

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like that. removed the heavy, ugly extension.
Your motor is too lean. Don't run it like that. Your motor is telling you that it is too lean once it warms up and the efi gets out of enriching mode by being slow to return to idle.

You can:
Add a fuel controller and richen it up
Or you can wait for your new exhaust system which may provide the back pressure you need .
Or you can put the stock mufflers on till you get the new ones. The bike will be quite happy with the original mufflers and the stage 1 download.
Should run a little better than it did completely stock.

You stand a chance of hurting it if you continue to run it like that. If it was mine I would cease and desist except for short test runs to see if I had fixed it yet.


You could unplug your O2 sensors and see if this high idle slow return to true idle disappears but there is no guaranty that this will work. On some bikes unplugging the O2's does make them noticeably richer. Others not so much to leaner.

Don't run it like that though, you are just taking life away from the motor.

Edit
Better yet put the stock mufflers back on and see if the problem goes away. Then you know that the lack of back pressure in the exhaust is causing a lean- ness at low speed in the motor.
I think you will find that putting the mufflers back on solves the problem. If not you have only wasted a little time.
Motors that are too lean down low often return to idle slowly, often on a carbureted engine without a ecm actively trying to control the idle speed they will not return to idle at all.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Your motor is too lean. Don't run it like that. Your motor is telling you that it is too lean once it warms up and the efi gets out of enriching mode by being slow to return to idle.

You can:
Add a fuel controller and richen it up
Or you can wait for your new exhaust system which may provide the back pressure you need .
Or you can put the stock mufflers on till you get the new ones. The bike will be quite happy with the original mufflers and the stage 1 download.
Should run a little better than it did completely stock.

You stand a chance of hurting it if you continue to run it like that. If it was mine I would cease and desist except for short test runs to see if I had fixed it yet.


You could unplug your O2 sensors and see if this high idle slow return to true idle disappears but there is no guaranty that this will work. On some bikes unplugging the O2's does make them noticeably richer. Others not so much to leaner.

Don't run it like that though, you are just taking life away from the motor.

Edit
Better yet put the stock mufflers back on and see if the problem goes away. Then you know that the lack of back pressure in the exhaust is causing a lean- ness at low speed in the motor.
I think you will find that putting the mufflers back on solves the problem. If not you have only wasted a little time.
Motors that are too lean down low often return to idle slowly, often on a carbureted engine without a ecm actively trying to control the idle speed they will not return to idle at all.
Wow, amazing explanation Joe, thanks for jumping in.
I'll test that first thing tomorrow before going to the shop.

Really appreciate you sharing your experience.

I'll try unplugging the O2 sensors first coz it's the easiest thing to do. Hopefully it will do the job.

The only thing I don't understand is that the stage 1 is supposed to richen the mixture by 2%, so how come I didn't have this issue before the mapping?

My friend having the same issue, it leads to another question : don't the Jekill & Hyde mufflers he bought for almost 2.5k bring enough back pressure ? I guess we'll have the answer after I run the tests tomorrow.
 

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Wow, amazing explanation Joe, thanks for jumping in.
I'll test that first thing tomorrow before going to the shop.

Really appreciate you sharing your experience.

I'll try unplugging the O2 sensors first coz it's the easiest thing to do. Hopefully it will do the job.

The only thing I don't understand is that the stage 1 is supposed to richen the mixture by 2%, so how come I didn't have this issue before the mapping?

My friend having the same issue, it leads to another question : don't the Jekill & Hyde mufflers he bought for almost 2.5k bring enough back pressure ? I guess we'll have the answer after I run the tests tomorrow.
To be honest I can't answer your questions.
However increasing the timing will lean out the afr somewhat.
IF the 2%, 2% is accurate. I'm almost certain that Polaris doesn't release what they actually do in the down load and this is a generalization. I have no reason not to believe VJ, I just don't know what his source was.
It kind of makes sense in a way because Victory must stay within emission specs first or they can't sell the bikes for highway use. This limits how much fuel they can add without doing something to decrease the emissions. IE turn up the timing and make it run hotter. But we have no proof of what they are doing I'm guessing.

There is a lot to an exhaust system and victory spends a lot of time and money trying to get them right. But they are designed to work as a system with all the pieces installed. Once you remove a piece or modify it you have something totally different. Each part has a function and sometimes one piece will be designed to also correct an issue caused by a different piece.
When you buy a Victory accessory exhaust from Victory their map for the stock pipe is no longer right because they have changed a part or the whole exhaust and the Stage 1 download corrects that.
You can bet that all their accessory exhaust systems are closely designed to require the same map and though they look different physically, to the engine they function nearly if not completely identically.

The stage 1 download is not a fix all for every exhaust you can put on. You may luck out and it may work with whatever you have ordered but there is no guaranty.

One thing at a time though.
Try the unplugging the O2 sensors. If they solve it, good. You have one of the bikes that actually get richer when the o2's are unplugged.

If not try the pipes back on. If that doesn't solve it be sure to try it a second time with the O2's plugged in and the mufflers just incase you have one of the minority of bikes that actually run leaner with the O2's plugged in and unplugging the O2's actually caused it to lean out some.

See how it goes.But you must find out what is going on because running a motor even leaner than they come from the factory will shorten it's life.
 

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PCV & Autotune

I'll take a different angle at this, if you did want to get a Power Commander V, they make another product called the Autotune, that eliminates the separate Dyno tuning.

From the Power Commander site:
Don’t have a dyno tuning center nearby?
...then our Auto Tune kit is for you. The Dynojet Auto Tune kit is an "add on" accessory that can be used with any of our Power Commander V’s.

Once installed, the Auto Tune kit monitors the fuel mixture (by installing the included Wide Band O2 sensor in the exhaust). It then sends this information to the Power Commander V and automatically corrects it while you ride. Each map that we offer has preset Air/Fuel ratio values included that we find to be the best overall settings. This lets you simply plug in the unit and let it do the work. For Harley Davidson models we ever monitor and adjust each cylinder individually for increased precision as on these models required fueling can vary significantly between the front and rear cylinder.

Good luck!
 

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What he says ^^^^ and you could split the cost of the auto tune with your friend, tune one bike then the other and sell it once the bikes are running as you want, and recoup much of your investment. Or you could become very popular by leasing it out or something like that since they are probably rare over there.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Wow wow wow, tried with the stock mufflers and it's impressive, it feels like a limousine. It feels way smoother because there is no sound. I understand now people who like it more quiet.

Tried also with the O2 sensors unplugged only.

Conclusion: I am relieved, it does not come from a lack of back pressure. The program they upload is just crap. I mean, it's pretty good but it's still adding too much fuel while decelerating.

Without O2 or with the mufflers, bike behaves about the same.
I am gonna remove those stock mufflers again after they cool a bit.

I'll take a different angle at this, if you did want to get a Power Commander V, they make another product called the Autotune, that eliminates the separate Dyno tuning.

From the Power Commander site:
Don’t have a dyno tuning center nearby?
...then our Auto Tune kit is for you. The Dynojet Auto Tune kit is an "add on" accessory that can be used with any of our Power Commander V’s.

Once installed, the Auto Tune kit monitors the fuel mixture (by installing the included Wide Band O2 sensor in the exhaust). It then sends this information to the Power Commander V and automatically corrects it while you ride. Each map that we offer has preset Air/Fuel ratio values included that we find to be the best overall settings. This lets you simply plug in the unit and let it do the work. For Harley Davidson models we ever monitor and adjust each cylinder individually for increased precision as on these models required fueling can vary significantly between the front and rear cylinder.

Good luck!
I might try that later, thanks.
A friend of a friend is known for being an amazing tuner. I might check with him first to see if he can do something. A custom tune is the best solution.

What he says ^^^^ and you could split the cost of the auto tune with your friend, tune one bike then the other and sell it once the bikes are running as you want, and recoup much of your investment. Or you could become very popular by leasing it out or something like that since they are probably rare over there.
Didn't think about that. Great tip thanks.

----
Going to the shop now
 

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like that. removed the heavy, ugly extension.
Heavy and Ugly they may be...but your bike needs them to run correctly...must sound fairly obnoxious too, specially on decell.
Plus youll be running waaaay to lean and risk melting your poor exhaust valves.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
It's apparently worse with the stage 1 than without.
Had the stage 1 removed and honestly, the difference in term of performance is very tiny.

I feel I control the bike a lot better because there is not this decel problem anymore. The mechanic told me the decel issue means it is too lean. So I removed it for not messing with the engine.

Now I need to get reimbursed... That's a different story.

Btw I love the backfire on decel.
 
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