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Discussion Starter #1
if i want to get a set of stage 1 mufflers used, i also have to
go to my dealer and buy the download card[which i guess is an
access code for the dealer]. is this thing only good for one time?
is that why no one ever has it with the mufflers for sale. if
that is the case its almost as cheap to buy the kit. by the time
you get the card and download you have about 1/2 the price of
the kit.anybody have the answer for the calibration card and multiple
uses. or have the card or software.i guess this is all done by the digital
wrench thank you!--irv
 

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I went in to get the download and my dealer's service manager said I wouldn't be satisfied with the results after I had informed him of my mods. I have eliminated the O2 sensors, drilled my OEM mufflers, installed a Lloydz IAV and a Vic high flow air filter. I wanted to eliminate some very mild popping and he didn't think a reflash would do it for me. How's that for honesty?
 

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Yes. It's a one-time download only available from a Vic dealer. It's also why most people opt for some kind of tuner instead.

The Stage 1 download is also lean as mandated by the EPA standards. Victory being a genuine licensed dealer and manufacturer of motorcycles in the US making more than x amount per year must abide by those standards.

With a tuner we are able to tune the bike to run like it should. I highly recommend the timing advance wheel from Lloydz to complete this tuning because the timing on Vic's are retarded quite a bit. A +4 degree setting is working for most folks. I love it. The motor simply runs smoother like it isn't fighting itself to run.

There is a conversation about the Cobra Fi2000 tuner that is an install it and forget it tuner that automagically tunes the bike constantly. Many say it works great and I haven't heard much from those who are actually running it say negative things about it. I think I would probably go with it, the timing wheel, free flowing mufflers, and a Lloydz air filter and enjoy the ride without having to think about doing any adjustments. For those who prefer to have more hands-on control; a Power Commander 5 tuner or possibly one of the Dobeck style tuners would be an option as well.
 

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Thanks for reminding me BBob, that's why my dealer didn't think I'd like the results of a reflash.
Does the Cobra Fi2000 require O2 sensors be connected or disconnected?
 

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The card is about $170 and the Vic high flow filter is $60. My local dealership said they will not charge labor for the flash but would for the air filter so I will probably do that myself when I get around to deciding what to do. I have read posts where some people love the S1 flash and some who don't. Read the same about the fuel tuners as well so IMO it is a crap shoot.
 

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If and when I go for a tuner, it will be the Lloydz VFCIII because 1. It is designed specifically for our bikes; 2. They will preset it according to the mods I have done; 3. It is user adjustable without a computer or dyno; 4. Costs less than $300 and 5. Tech help is just a phone call away. But I may first go with their timing wheel and see what that does by itself.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
i read all the cobra posts till my eyes crossed and i went blind and
probably half crazy[no,not you,h c]. i see im doomed to leave it
alone. i guess victory covered themselves. no sharing. in another
6 months ill get mad at the sewing machine that clatters and
bring it up again. thanks!--irv

come to think of it--no cobra processor posts lately.
timing wheel an external thing or does the motor get
torn down? would advancing the intial timing be helpful
by itself. or does the total then get retarded by the ecm>
 

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my bike runs a lot smoother after the flash. I can't really say if the power is more, it SEEMS to have more power, and it didn't change the up shift pops, but it is noticeably smoother running.
 

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I am still on the fence about which tune to get, s1 or the Vfc iii. I have run through 3 tanks of gas with my wd exhaust and my mpg's are still about 41 to the gallon. The pipes still want to backfire every now and then but I am learning to control it. Ridealittle, how has mpg's been after the flash?
 

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As posted earlier...the Stage 1 reflash by the dealer has to abide by EPA/DOT standards, which means lean = clean. But lean = hot engine too.
 

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The card is about $170 and the Vic high flow filter is $60. My local dealership said they will not charge labor for the flash but would for the air filter so I will probably do that myself when I get around to deciding what to do. I have read posts where some people love the S1 flash and some who don't. Read the same about the fuel tuners as well so IMO it is a crap shoot.
The Stage 1 is mapped to work with their S1 pipes and S1 filter. It works great with those components. Lord only knows how it will work with a stock pipe full of holes, true duals, or anything else it wasn't originally mapped for.
 

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As posted earlier...the Stage 1 reflash by the dealer has to abide by EPA/DOT standards, which means lean = clean. But lean = hot engine too.
You need to read the statement carefully. Their statement indicates that it meets EPA emission standards. IOW, they didn't remove the cats.

They make no claims as to meeting noise standards.

I have no issues with engine heat emanating from my S1 modified machine.
 

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I have no issues with engine heat emanating from my S1 modified machine.
Not saying excessive heat. Just that lean = hotter, richer = cooler.
 

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Not saying excessive heat. Just that lean = hotter, richer = cooler.
Personally, I don't believe it could be mapped any better than it is given the parts that are on it. Throttle response is superb, runs strong, gets good gas mileage. Not sure how much more one could expect.

I was out the other day in Amish country and a car passed me at about 100 mph. I decided to run with him since the road had many twisty bits and I knew he couldn't keep that up. It was a shitty car but whoever piloted it kept it on his side of the road and made good time even through the corners. The Vic was frankly stronger than I needed it to be because when he'd stomp on it down the straights I let him go. I don't need my license revoked for the summer for one ride with a knucklehead. Not to mention I've already had a couple of personal greetings from roadside deer this year.

Unless you're Al Unser, Vics Stage 1 kit is a pretty good way to make the bike run the way it should.
 

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Saddle, what mods and equipment are you running? Glad to hear she's running as you report, I'm working on mine to do that. I don't know which is more fun, working toward that goal or meeting the goal.
 

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Saddlebag, it is good to hear from you and others who have the S1 and think it is a good upgrade to the stock ecm setting. The WD baffled pipes are not much different than the vic stage 1 pipe, just a shorter baffle which creates more noise and probably a little bit less back pressure. I may even buy a set of used s1 pipes if I find a good deal on a set and compare them to my aftermarket re-cores and see how I like them and sell the one I like the least. What kind of mpg's are you getting out your s1 bike? I would like to stay somewhere near 40 mpg if I can but I do realize I will lose some with any alteration of the stock set up. I've only got a little over 2k miles on my XR so my gas mileage and engine power will probably improve a little over the summer as I pile more miles on.
 

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Saddlebag, it is good to hear from you and others who have the S1 and think it is a good upgrade to the stock ecm setting. The WD baffled pipes are not much different than the vic stage 1 pipe, just a shorter baffle which creates more noise and probably a little bit less back pressure. I may even buy a set of used s1 pipes if I find a good deal on a set and compare them to my aftermarket re-cores and see how I like them and sell the one I like the least. What kind of mpg's are you getting out your s1 bike? I would like to stay somewhere near 40 mpg if I can but I do realize I will lose some with any alteration of the stock set up. I've only got a little over 2k miles on my XR so my gas mileage and engine power will probably improve a little over the summer as I pile more miles on.
With O2's plugged in the bike gets ~42 mpg with a lot of jack rabbit starts and rev limited ends.

If one has the time, money, and desire to put into cams, then there is a lot of bang for the buck through a properly implemented Lloyd's solution, but for those who don't need a ton of power and want an excellent plug and play solution, I'd say go with Vic's answer and leave all the popping, surging, and stalling issues to some other poor shmuck.
 

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Thanks for reminding me BBob, that's why my dealer didn't think I'd like the results of a reflash.
Does the Cobra Fi2000 require O2 sensors be connected or disconnected?
The Cobra Powerpro although having o2 connections does not require them to be connected to do what the Powerpro was intended to do which is richen the fuel mixture when you twist the throttle. From what I understand primarily from the person that makes these units is that connecting the o2 sensors or not will not have any affect on what the primary function of the tuner is.

I personally have tried all three ways to run this thing and have found that just leaving the factory o2s connected and not using the Cobras has given me good results. The factory setting is optimal and even better with a stg 1 flash but still lean during load.

When I ran no o2's at all my bike seemed to pop on upshifts more. It just felt to rich but how do you tell? It just runs the best this way now. Many are running with no o2's and many are running with Cobra o2 connected. Go figure? I think that climate has alot to do with how these bikes run.

I had the stage 1 flash and filter done at first service. The dealer was concerned that my D&D pipes would not work well with the flash but to their surpise my bike ran well. D&D's are designed for stg1 flash. It just didnt run well enough which led me to the fuel tuner and lloyds filter.

As stated here before many have had good results with the Cobra and some say its worthless. I hear the same about all the tuners available for our bikes. Personally I wouldnt waste the money again on a stg1 flash. I would buy the D&D's and lloyds filter again in a heart beat. The fuel tuner choice is a tough one but for now the Cobra seems to be doing its job.

Lloyds timing gear and cams are in the future and if I need it it an IAV.
 

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Thanks for reminding me BBob, that's why my dealer didn't think I'd like the results of a reflash.
Does the Cobra Fi2000 require O2 sensors be connected or disconnected?
Disconnected and at around $550 it's pretty expensive when you consider that you can do 95% of what the Cobra does simply by using a Lloyds VFC or Ness Big Shot or...etc for under $250.

However, if back firing is what you are trying to eliminate neither of these options are likely to do it for you as that is not what they are designed to do. Have you tried adjusting the IAV since THAT is what is suppose to help the most with backfiring?

http://www.kingpin-riders.com/articles.asp?Article=59691&fid=40
 
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