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Discussion Starter #1
I have been having a problem where my XC doesn’t want to start when hot. Let’s say I go for a nice little ride, maybe 50 miles, and stop at a convenience store. I come out and hit the button, she turns over about half to one full revolution, then it kind of grunts and ALL the lights go out… headlight and all. I let go of the button, everything comes back on, wait 3-10 seconds and hit the button again and she fires right off. Until this AM it always fired right off on the second try with absolutely no hesitation. It does not always have this problem, maybe 30% of the time, but always at the worst possible time. I put the battery on the charger overnight (8-10 hours on 2A) but it didn’t make any difference.

I recently had a plug wire burn up and the bike was down for a few days. I replaced it Saturday and was hoping that it would cure this problem too… but I guess I’m not that lucky.

This Sunday I took the long way down to Daytona, cruised around town, made a few stops, and then took US-1 back… about 300 miles total.

I started the bike maybe 12-15 separate times Sunday. Out of that I had 2 hard starts, where the engine turned over ½ a rev and then the starter grunted. Both times I was in neutral, which rules out clutch drag. Both times I let go of the starter button immediately, waited maybe 3-5 seconds and then hit it again. Both times it fired right off the second time.

This AM I backed the bike out of the garage (in neutral) and it grunted on the first try. This is the first time I’ve had this issue when the bike was cold. When hit the button the second time I had to hold it for a long time before it started to fire, then it just sputtered and died. The third time I held the button for several revs before it fired off good. I rode maybe 20 miles and then stopped for gas… and it grunted again, but fired off on the second try.

This has now become a real BIG problem. I am planning to leave out Friday at 10:00AM for a three day ride with a bunch of friends. The last thing I need is the only non-Harley in the group having starter problems. I was hoping that the plug wire would cure this problem too, but obviously not. I need this fixed NOW.

Has anyone worked on the compression release system on the 106 engine?

Anybody got any other ideas as to what might be causing this problem?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the feedback.

Battery cables were greased and tightened a couple of weeks ago… had no effect. Battery was put on the charger the next day for 8-10 hours… had no effect. This morning the battery had enough juice to turn the starter over for 7-10 seconds straight on the second try, then for maybe 5 seconds for the third try before the bike fired. I would think that if the battery has enough juice to spin the engine like that and still fire off it should be fine, but I could be wrong.
Also checked the case ground and positive to the starter solenoid… good and tight, no corrosion.
 

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Thanks for the feedback.

Battery cables were greased and tightened a couple of weeks ago… had no effect. Battery was put on the charger the next day for 8-10 hours… had no effect. This morning the battery had enough juice to turn the starter over for 7-10 seconds straight on the second try, then for maybe 5 seconds for the third try before the bike fired. I would think that if the battery has enough juice to spin the engine like that and still fire off it should be fine, but I could be wrong.
Also checked the case ground and positive to the starter solenoid… good and tight, no corrosion.
What about the decompression solenoid? I read that some people with Yami crusiers had similar issues.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
According to the dealer there is no decompression solenoid, supprize to me. Dealer was leaning towards a bad solder joint in the battery.

I did a bunch of testing last night, started the bike 30 times over a couple of hours. Bike did it twice. Both times voltage dropped to below 9VDC.

I'm thinking maybe a bad winding in the starter... but I don't know.

I just want this damn thing to work right.
 

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Sounds like the battery to me, when you get a loose connection internal you can not see it. When it is hot not enough voltage to start. You hit the starter the joint welds back together. One thing to do is check the voltage while it is running warmed up to see if it charging. 13.7 volts check it in the morning cold before you start it up 12.7,, Get it good and hot run stop it shut it off check the voltage see what the number is before you start it. Then try to start check voltage again.. Current draw is another way to check if you know how to do this. Battery, starter, and charging system to trouble shoot can drive you nuts until you understand how it works. Lose wire, connection, and corrosion on a terminal.. I normally charge $75 service call and $50 dollars a hour...on Electrical..LOL
 

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Sounds like the battery to me
That or some faulty relay. If he didn't have the problems with the radio circuit not being circumvented during start up, I would tend to think it was some battery issue too. Certainly easy enough (if a little costly) to replace to see if it fixes it.

Based on these starting issues thus far being experienced only by XC owners, it makes me wonder if there might be a bad batch of relays out there that should normally take the accessories off-line to provide maximum power for the starter that aren't always doing their job.

Did the dealer say where he thought the solder connection would be? I would have thought that the wires from the battery to the starter would be large enough gauge to be crimped and tied down with terminals.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Bad solder INSIDE the battery.

Repeated the test this AM...

Static key off at 12.74, key on (radio etc) 12.32, normal start down to 10.00 even, running at 14.32, second start it had the problem... down to 8.56VDC.

This is very frustrating. Bike is only 8 months old and I have already had a handful of parts replaced under warranty.

It would be easier if the dealer wasn't 65 miles away... 130 mile round trip to drop it off, same to pick it up.
 

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Bad solder INSIDE the battery.

Repeated the test this AM...

Static key off at 12.74, key on (radio etc) 12.32, normal start down to 10.00 even, running at 14.32, second start it had the problem... down to 8.56VDC.

This is very frustrating. Bike is only 8 months old and I have already had a handful of parts replaced under warranty.

It would be easier if the dealer wasn't 65 miles away... 130 mile round trip to drop it off, same to pick it up.
Why don't you try starting it off the car battery a few times and see if that has any problems. If not, you'll know it's the bike's battery and can go buy another with confidence that it will fix what ails ya.
 

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Why don't you try starting it off the car battery a few times and see if that has any problems. If not, you'll know it's the bike's battery and can go buy another with confidence that it will fix what ails ya.
Replace the main circuit breaker because you say you lose the lights also I assume everything goes dead.Cheap easy fix that's what my problem was.
 

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NEVER every use a car jump. It puts out way to to juice for a small bike battery.
You could pull the battery after a over night charge and go to a battery store and have a load test done on it.
There is a black plastic cover that cover the starter solenoid in front of the motor or behind the battery.
You could do a test there if you have 12v going in you should have the same on the other side of the solenoid. If not solenoid is bad. Of coarse check all bolts for tightness.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Took off early from work today and made the ride to the dealer. At least it's a nice ride over there and it was a good day.

The guys did some testing and the bike actually cooperated with a no-start on the third try.

The battery was replaced, they started it a few times and were satisfied. I tried it a few more, rode it home, then tried a few more times.

Looks like it was the battery.

Wooohooo!!!!!
 

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NEVER every use a car jump. It puts out way to to juice for a small bike battery.
VJ, a car battery is a 12v battery, just like a MC battery. One battery does not "put out" any more juice than the other. They both put out whatever the starter motor requires to crank.
 

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Took off early from work today and made the ride to the dealer. At least it's a nice ride over there and it was a good day.

The guys did some testing and the bike actually cooperated with a no-start on the third try.

The battery was replaced, they started it a few times and were satisfied. I tried it a few more, rode it home, then tried a few more times.

Looks like it was the battery.

Wooohooo!!!!!
Glad to hear it. You may want to relay your experience to the other coupla of guys posting around here with XC starting issues.
 

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Jump starting a bike from a car.

You can create a problem jumping a bike with a car if you do it incorrectly. But you can do it. Make sure both ignitions are off. Hook the cables up correctly, positive to positive,negative to negative. Do not start the car. Start the bike. Once it is started disconnect the cables,negative first. I like to carry a smaller set of jumper cables with me on trips. I actually made them,you can buy them for motorcycles also. ----What if you do it wrong? It can cost you lots of money. You can blow the battery up, short things out, screw up the ECU or computer,just a few examples. Also if you do it wrong you might get lucky and not hurt anything,but I would not count on it.:crzy:
 

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You can create a problem jumping a bike with a car if you do it incorrectly.
You can create a problem doing anything incorrectly.

But you can do it. Make sure both ignitions are off. Hook the cables up correctly, positive to positive,negative to negative. Do not start the car. Start the bike. Once it is started disconnect the cables,negative first.
That's good advise, but I will add to it if you don't mind.

a) There is no reason to start the car, but even if one did, the slightly higher voltage being driven by its running alternator is not likely to hurt anything. You bike's alternator increases the voltage slightly above the battery voltage when it operates too.

Remember, current is not pushed from the source, but rather pulled by the load. A bigger (stiffer) 12V supply only means that the voltage will droop less when asked to deliver current to the load. This is a good thing. The reason bike batteries are smaller is because they need to fit the application, not because a larger 12V source would somehow overwhelm the circuitry.

b) The benefit to disconnecting the negative first is only realized if you connect the negative away from the battery somewhere on the vehicle's grounded frame. The reason is that batteries can produce hydrogen gas that can ignite in the presence of battery arcing when the last cable clamp is applied/removed and the circuit is closed/opened. The idea is to hook up the positive first, then hook up the negative on a ground piece away from the battery that connects the circuit and allows current to flow. When removing the battery, the order should be reversed so that the circuit is disconnected from the ground away from the battery. This should be observed on both vehicles to avoid confusion, but only needs to be done on the last clamp that completes the circuit.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Battery was not the solution. Bike had the no-start problem 4 times in 600 miles last weekend. Bike is going to the dealer this week. Hope they can get it figured out in a week or so. I have plans to visit my parent (Moms birthday April 6th) in north GA and then ride up into NC, TN, and KY if I have time. I will not be happy if this problem affects my plans.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
The Cross Country is in good hands at the dealer. By the way, when the tech came out to pull the bike in the bay it did the no-start thing for him, right on que.

I have been ignoring bike #2 for the last 7 months but I'm just about done getting it back up to snuff.... Oil change, clean air filter, slightly used solid rear rim (upgrade I've been wanting to do for years), almost new rear brake rotor (badly needed), and new rear pads. New tires later this week and it will be ready to go. It needed the attention.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Talked to the tech yesterday, he said the starter is bad. Bike will be ready Saturday or Monday.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Got the bike back yesterday evening after the dealer replaced the starter. Looks like the problem is solved.
 
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