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Dem Chief of Staff: “This Either Gets Fixed or This Could be the Demise of the Democratic Party”

Maybe pushing this bill through with zero Republican votes wasn't such a great idea after all even though it's the holy grail for the liberals in the democrat party.

With 22.5% of the American population identifying themselves as liberals and having taken over the democrat party almost in total; would it really be a surprise if the dem party did fall under the weight of it forcing an agenda on the rest of America; at least the part of Americans who understand what is going on?

What say you about this historic even unfolding before our eyes as we live through it?
 

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We shall see. Too early to tell. Things can turn around quickly. Don't count your chickens...
 

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Discussion Starter #5
We shall see. Too early to tell. Things can turn around quickly. Don't count your chickens...
Not counting on anything yet. Just observing. I find it interesting the dem party, and obama in particular, did this to themselves. They had no outside the party help in this at all which is part of their problem. No major social legislation has ever passed without two major party's involved. With obamacare; the pubs were completely shut out of the process right down to secret closed door meetings about how to write the parts of the bill both party's would normally be involved in. Like I said; they did this to themselves 100%.

Gee, wasn't the Republican party dead a few weeks ago?
Yup; and 4 years ago and....

I don't think the dem party is going anywhere but if it wants to be relevant going forward they are going to need to get back to where they were before the liberals/progressives took the party over and corrupted it to the criminal level and continues to do so. Heck; they don't even bother trying to hide their crimes anymore because no one is or will do anything about it. That doesn't mean it goes unnoticed though.

It should be interesting to see how far down the rabbit hole they drag themselves.
 

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*sigh*, more posts to bash us liberals.

Country going down the tube? Umm...remember 2009? Losing 750k jobs/month. Stock market in the tank, GM/Chrysler bankrupt, two wars (unpaid for), and OBL still running around.

And let me guess, you Teabaggers panties are all in a bunch over a website?

That's the end of the Dem party? Because of a website malfunction?


But under Bush's watch, 9/11 happened, Iraq was in shambles w/US GIs being killed at a rate of around 500/month, and the collapse of the stock market and economy.

But under Obama, the country is going down the tubes? Because of a website?

Jobs on the rise (w/no help from the GOP House):


But over a website, the country is doomed?

PUHLEEZE!
 

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I'm a republican, and I consider myself a moderate. I've been quite discouraged for some time with the disfunction of my party. We have great leaders but fail to support them. We have leaders that don't have a clue but somehow gain popular support and get into office with no leadership skills and they have no support system and crash and burn.

In contrast the Democrats have cultivated very charismatic politicians who seem to be able to get elected with very little opposition and most of their wins are by landslides. The Democratic Party is an election winning machine.

Now look at the areas the Republican Party control. They are typically areas with larger incomes and predominantly white. The Republican Party has to expand its base and reach out to Hispanics and blacks.

In contrast the democrats tend to control almost all urban areas with lower incomes. These also tend to represent the higher percentage of welfare and unemployment recipients.

The ACA to most republicans is a horrible piece of legislation. Most democrats still defend it. Herein lies the problem. If the overall cost of the ACA is as atrocious as most republicans say there is no way the citizens will stand for and no way we can fund it if young people refuse to participate.

Okay, so it may fail. What if it does? Do you think the insurance companies will just welcome back all the people they really didn't want to cover with reasonable rates? I don't think so. Also, what if all the people that they cancelled because their policies didn't conform with the ACA, will they welcome them back with reasonably priced policies? I don't think so. As much as I mostly despise most everything the Democratic Party stands for these days I'm about sick of the republicans trashing the ACA without a optional plan of their own. You can't go thru life trashing something you don't like without offering something better. Personally I hate everything I know about the ACA bug it's now a law so I'm stuck with it just like everybody else.

So what do we have? Who the hell knows. In my 45 years on this planet this is the first time I have seriously worried about the direction of our government. I think the Democratic Party has been taken over and controlled by the most extreme left wingers ever. I also think the Republican Party has been taken over by the Tea Party which is a very extreme right wing group from what I can tell but I haven't done a ton of research on them so I could be wrong.

What we need are politicians that understand we can't continue to pay for everything for the poor but we also can't let them starve. We have to do away with some of the wasteful programs we currently have and we have to find a way to reward corporate America for developing good strategies that create new jobs. We need more politicians that are willing to reach across the aisle and compromise with their perceived enemies to find solutions and develop bills that will put this policy back on track.


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Just because the central premise of Obamacare has been shown to be a failure (the government can do it better and they will be the arbiter Of what is good for you) doesn't mean the Dems are going to admit it. It'll be the Republicans fault because they won't cooperate to fix these "minor glitches" in the law.

Those darned republicans, we'd be in utopia by now if they would get out of the way.
:cool:
 

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The ACA is nothing more than nation-wide Romneycare, which was a Republican idea (thank you Heritage Foundation!), supported by Orrin Hatch and Bob Dole.

But I guess those two guys would be considered Radical leftist Socialists compared to the Republicans today.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/08/republicans-supported-obamacare-gingrich-dole-individual-mandate


You guys worried about the country going far left?

I guess perhaps people are tired of the only 3 things Republicans stand for these days:

- tax cuts for the rich
- preventing gays from marrying
- controlling a woman's body and her rights to get pregnant or not and rights when she is pregnant.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
*sigh*, more posts to bash us liberals.

And let me guess, you Teabaggers panties are all in a bunch over a website?

That's the end of the Dem party? Because of a website malfunction?

But over a website, the country is doomed?

PUHLEEZE!
OK, I'm not really sure why I reply to you because you just hit and run on these threads without replying to your reply, but I will give it one more shot.

First of all this thread is about the democrat party; not the country and not Bush. He hasn't been in office for 5 years; remember?

Second; you need to come out from under that rock more often. This is about a flat out lie told by the POTUS 30 something times on camera to the nation; not a website. "If you like your plan you can keep it. Period." His credibility is shot and his chance of getting it back are somewhere between slim and none. He burned that bridge hard.

I'm a republican, and I consider myself a moderate. I've been quite discouraged for some time with the disfunction of my party. We have great leaders but fail to support them. We have leaders that don't have a clue but somehow gain popular support and get into office with no leadership skills and they have no support system and crash and burn.

In contrast the Democrats have cultivated very charismatic politicians who seem to be able to get elected with very little opposition and most of their wins are by landslides. The Democratic Party is an election winning machine.

No disagreement from me so far...

Now look at the areas the Republican Party control. They are typically areas with larger incomes and predominantly white. The Republican Party has to expand its base and reach out to Hispanics and blacks.

OK. How do you propose we do that? Amnesty is out of the question and they only listen to their minority leaders. If they can't think for themselves as Americans; they should not be voting.

In contrast the democrats tend to control almost all urban areas with lower incomes. These also tend to represent the higher percentage of welfare and unemployment recipients.

Yup. The dems offer them free ice cream. Maybe they should not vote either because they have no skin in the game unless it's their palms stretched out and upwards.

The ACA to most republicans is a horrible piece of legislation. Most democrats still defend it. Herein lies the problem. If the overall cost of the ACA is as atrocious as most republicans say there is no way the citizens will stand for and no way we can fund it if young people refuse to participate.

Okay, so it may fail. What if it does? Do you think the insurance companies will just welcome back all the people they really didn't want to cover with reasonable rates? I don't think so. Also, what if all the people that they cancelled because their policies didn't conform with the ACA, will they welcome them back with reasonably priced policies? I don't think so. As much as I mostly despise most everything the Democratic Party stands for these days I'm about sick of the republicans trashing the ACA without a optional plan of their own. You can't go thru life trashing something you don't like without offering something better. Personally I hate everything I know about the ACA bug it's now a law so I'm stuck with it just like everybody else.

Actually the pubs have offered many alternatives. They are not all one plan. They are incremental changes to bring costs down so people can afford them. What good does obamacare do if it forces 30 million people off of insurance they were perfectly happy with to give 30 million people free healthcare? We didn't need to trash the healthcare system to do this. No. Tort reform, buying insurance across state lines with no limit on insurance companies doing business in any given state, just to start with, is a much better start and option than obamacare that has forced people to work part time instead of full time and will force them to buy something they may not even want (not the American way at all).

We don't need or want a European style socialist healthcare system that puts the government in charge of our healthcare decisions, drops thousands of needed doctors, and has 100's of hospitals opting out. Obamacare can do nothing but fail. Now that we see what's in it and what it's doing; we now know that.


So what do we have? Who the hell knows. In my 45 years on this planet this is the first time I have seriously worried about the direction of our government. I think the Democratic Party has been taken over and controlled by the most extreme left wingers ever. I also think the Republican Party has been taken over by the Tea Party which is a very extreme right wing group from what I can tell but I haven't done a ton of research on them so I could be wrong.

The short straight version of the TEA Party is they want our government to abide by the oath they took to abide by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Plus they want our elected leaders to find a way to correct the debt spiral. Tough and difficult decisions need to be made. No one said it would be easy. Obamacare just makes those decisions harder because it puts us in debt faster and deeper than ever.

What we need are politicians that understand we can't continue to pay for everything for the poor but we also can't let them starve. We have to do away with some of the wasteful programs we currently have and we have to find a way to reward corporate America for developing good strategies that create new jobs. We need more politicians that are willing to reach across the aisle and compromise with their perceived enemies to find solutions and develop bills that will put this policy back on track.

I agree as long as it helps correct the debt and deficit.
Just because the central premise of Obamacare has been shown to be a failure (the government can do it better and they will be the arbiter Of what is good for you) doesn't mean the Dems are going to admit it. It'll be the Republicans fault because they won't cooperate to fix these "minor glitches" in the law.

Those darned republicans, we'd be in utopia by now if they would get out of the way.
:cool:
I think you forgot to insert the /S tag to turn off the sarcasm. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The ACA is nothing more than nation-wide Romneycare, which was a Republican idea (thank you Heritage Foundation!), supported by Orrin Hatch and Bob Dole.

I guess perhaps people are tired of the only 3 things Republicans stand for these days:

- tax cuts for the rich
- preventing gays from marrying
- controlling a woman's body and her rights to get pregnant or not and rights when she is pregnant.
Umm... Even Mitt Romney said it can work at the state level but not at the national level and even then; not all or even many states - just the socialist-minded ones. Strike 1.

Howabout tax cuts for everyone instead of raising taxes which we already know does not help the economy that has been practically stagnant since 0 took office. Strike 2.

There are people in the Republican party who are pro-life just like there are people who are pro-abortion. The problem pubs in general have is they don't want to pay for something that goes against their beliefs. Deeply held and powerful beliefs yet the dems want to force them to. Strike 3. Game over. Try again?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Also; wait for us to get into the second lie he told about keeping our doctors. Period.

The water will be boiling at this point.

Then wait for the 100 million people who get hit with crazy high premiums and deductibles.

Oops. The frog is dead.
 

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The ACA is nothing more than nation-wide Romneycare, which was a Republican idea (thank you Heritage Foundation!), supported by Orrin Hatch and Bob Dole.
It's not working in Mass. either. Here's a segment that was on the PBS Evening News last night (11-19-13).
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/july-dec13/healthcare_11-19.html

Obamacare isn't working for Hitler either...his insurance has been cancelled. You gotta hear this, especially to the last sentence.
 

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I guess perhaps people are tired of the only 3 things Republicans stand for these days:

- tax cuts for the rich
- preventing gays from marrying
- controlling a woman's body and her rights to get pregnant or not and rights when she is pregnant.
You are a real lemming. :crzy:
 

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Umm... Even Mitt Romney said it can work at the state level but not at the national level and even then;

Says the guy who just got free surgery from the govt's VA that fixed his back.

Let's try and remember a couple things here. The ACA is still adminitered by private, for profit inurance corporations. The ACA website was developed by a private, for profit corporation. The plans people had when O said they could keep their plans were plans the gov't had allowed to be grandfathered "as is." For profit corporations decided to cancel them as they were no longer profitable enough. Not O's fault, but he makes a convenient scapegoat for the haters.

I agree the system is half assed too. Problem is, O was caving to Republicans when he sponsored it in hopes of bringing them onboard with THEIR OWN plan. Dreamer...

I think most "liberals" would prefer a simple, single payer system like the one used for your medical care. You know. like the ones used in every other civilized country in the world. Why is it that you'd prefer to be more like Mexico or North Korea in this regard?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Says the guy who just got free surgery from the govt's VA that fixed his back.

Who said I had surgery through the VA or that it was free? Not me. You sure do assume facts not in evidence - a lot. I'm not going to put that kind of personal info out on a public forum.

Let's try and remember a couple things here. The ACA is still adminitered by private, for profit inurance corporations. The ACA website was developed by a private, for profit corporation. The plans people had when O said they could keep their plans were plans the gov't had allowed to be grandfathered "as is." For profit corporations decided to cancel them as they were no longer profitable enough. Not O's fault, but he makes a convenient scapegoat for the haters.

Umm... no. Unless you consider all the taxpayer money paying for 16k IRS agents and who knows how many IT people to be a private corporation.

The grandfathered plans were changed because of obamacare's set standards. The Ins. Co. had to cancel the plans because o'care dictated it. Bad ju ju all around.

Get single payer out of your head. It's the worst possible way to get healthcare because as you said; I have VA benefits. Totally lame healthcare. It's ok for routine minor stuff but for anything significant it's much better to go outside that system. Since you never served; you can't get it and can't know that though or am I now assuming a fact not in evidence? Also, VA healthcare is not free to me anyway. I still have to pay and the right to get VA benefits was paid by me when I signed a blank check payable to the American people for any amount up to and including my life.

I agree the system is half assed too. Problem is, O was caving to Republicans when he sponsored it in hopes of bringing them onboard with THEIR OWN plan. Dreamer...

What!? Explain. If you mean there were a few parts of o'care the pubs could go along with, then ya, that's probably true... then and now.


I think most "liberals" would prefer a simple, single payer system like the one used for your medical care. You know. like the ones used in every other civilized country in the world. Why is it that you'd prefer to be more like Mexico or North Korea in this regard?
Again, get single payer out of your head, it was and is the absolute wrong way to get decent healthcare. Now if you are willing to accept substandard healthcare, really substandard, not the way o'care describes it with men needing all the female type healthcare benefits; then you can have it. Simply move to one of those countries who have it. Don't bother with Canada though. When they need good healthcare now; they come here.
 

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So...it's really the fault of the Republicans, and specifically, Romney. Downright insideous that is.
You are assuming there's blame. Hell, I think the Republican plan is a far better system than we had, if they could work out the tech glitches.
 

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Again, get single payer out of your head, it was and is the absolute wrong way to get decent healthcare. Now if you are willing to accept substandard healthcare, really substandard, not the way o'care describes it with men needing all the female type healthcare benefits; then you can have it. Simply move to one of those countries who have it. Don't bother with Canada though. When they need good healthcare now; they come here.
Who said I had surgery through the VA or that it was free?
You stated in at least one other post that you use the VA.

Umm... no. Unless you consider all the taxpayer money paying for 16k IRS agents
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/03/irs-expansion/

The grandfathered plans were changed because of obamacare's set standards. The Ins. Co. had to cancel the plans because o'care dictated it. Bad ju ju all around.
http://www.factcheck.org/2013/11/keeping-your-health-plan/

"Grandfathered health plans do not have to meet all of the law’s new coverage requirements. But in order to be grandfathered, health plans must have existed on March 23, 2010. Those with individual grandfathered plans had to have them before the law took effect. And to maintain their grandfathered status, the plans must not be changed to cut benefits or significantly raise prices for consumers through deductibles or co-pays."


Get single payer out of your head. It's the worst possible way to get healthcare because as you said; I have VA benefits. Totally lame healthcare.
What is lame about it? And why would you use "lame" healthcare?


Since you never served; you can't get it
Now who's making assumptions?

the right to get VA benefits was paid by me when I signed a blank check payable to the American people for any amount up to and including my life.
People in every occupation die. Some with a lot more regularity than service members. Why do you feel a life long entitlement is due you and not them? Don't forget, those people creating the wealth are the ones who pay those who protect the wealth.

Again, get single payer out of your head, it was and is the absolute wrong way to get decent healthcare. Now if you are willing to accept substandard healthcare, really substandard.
http://www.healthnewsreview.org/2012/03/comparing-health-care-costs-in-us-and-8-other-countries/
 
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