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Discussion Starter #1
Had the bike (2007 Vegas) to a dyno tuner last week. At the end of the runs, he said the clutch was slipping. I finally got the chance to take a closer look at the assembly and found that the clutch pinion gear does this...

https://youtu.be/pzjhgZ19MsA

When I move the pinion by hand, it feels like it's rolling over the first two or three gear teeth...and I don't it should have that kind of play/slop in it. Am I right?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Interesting..a few posters on a different site said it's normal to have some play and it didn't look excessive. I originally thought it was but - obviously - I don't know for sure.

In any event, the clutch plates have only a couple thousand miles on them. There's no adjustment on hydraulic clutch, which I failed to disclose in original post.

Master cylinder was overfilled. As I now understand, over filling can cause the clutch pinion from returning to a normal position. I'll have to take it apart this weekend and see what's going on.
 

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Interesting..a few posters on a different site said it's normal to have some play and it didn't look excessive. I originally thought it was but - obviously - I don't know for sure.

In any event, the clutch plates have only a couple thousand miles on them. There's no adjustment on hydraulic clutch, which I failed to disclose in original post.

Master cylinder was overfilled. As I now understand, over filling can cause the clutch pinion from returning to a normal position. I'll have to take it apart this weekend and see what's going on.
This added info does change things. I don't suppose you remember it having this much slop before and after the clutch plates were changed? Makes me wonder if a spacer plate or clutch plate was left out. When you take it apart be sure to count both and verify the right number is in there.

If the overfilled clutch master cylinder did cause the clutch to be held open a little; that could prematurely wear out the plates.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
You're right...I don't recollect this amount of slop at any time. Even the tuner guy didn't notice it until the end of the tuning session. So was it there all along? Don't know. Did it just happen during tuning? Well, I honestly don't know. All I know is that the slop was discovered, at the end of an hour and a half of hard runs.

I know what you're saying about the plates. If the bike was in a constant state of a 'feathered' clutch then the plates are most likely damaged and need replacing.

Good thought about a spacer plate or clutch plate being left out. It's possible.

Thank you.
 

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When I found my clutch slippin'... and I mean slippin'! It showed signs at high revs in 6th gear (no other gear showed signs of slippage-i.e., high tach revs with applied throttle). I decided to do the job myself. Needless to say, I had no instruction and it was my 1st time doing a motorcycle clutch. When reassemblin' I noticed the play you've demonstrated in yer 1st video. Didn't think anything of it.

The important thing, I understood, was that the clutch pinion arm be 15 degrees (+/- 5) out from the casin' before pressure's applied. With the pinion arm at that position any more pressure would release the clutch pack. The toothed clutch rack inside the clutch basket may have some play forward, as you show in yer video. But, when chucked in with the slave piston that play should go away. I had the same play you demonstrate in yer second video. My problem was, accordin' to the Tech, I put too much pressure on the pinion arm from the slave piston which caused my clutch to be in constant release. I tried it several different ways but wound-up takin' my problem to a Polaris dealership... they charged me for a new Victory clutch but did fix the problem.

So, to answer yer question... when I did my clutch what yer seein's normal.
Also, if yer clutch is slippin' then it's slippin'... no adjustment in the hydraulic system. If yer clutch's slippin' the plates are worn (this I did verify on several levels). The play yer seein' isn't worn plates but the slop in the clutch rack.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for the reply, Dave. So let me see if I'm understanding. The play in the pinion is normal. Make sure the pinion is set at 15* (+ or - 5*) out from the primary case and the slop should then go away when assembled with the cylinder slave. Conversely, if the pinion clutch pinion isn't set at the correct degrees from the primary case then the slop will still be there after assembly. That in turn leads to the clutch being in a constant state of release (although not fully released, more like a constant state of feathering the clutch lever.) Am I following you?
 

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Kinda… yer right up 'til the conversely part. If ya have too much play in the pinion shaft to clutch rack (bolt) y'll never release yer clutch. If yer tryin' to make sure the clutch's operation is as tight as possible, remove all play from the pinion to clutch rack make-up then the clutch stays partially disengaged and it's featherin' the clutch while ridin'.

There's some slop in the rack to pinion shaft make-up and some more slop in the rack to clutch basket. That's the play yer seein' in yer videos. Then, there's the 15 degrees where the shaft sits but doesn't disengage the clutch. In yer 2nd video, where ya pull the pinion shaft out and slave piston forward (away from the casin') that's the rack clutch slop. When ya pull yer lever and disengage the clutch, yer removin' the slop and releasin' the clutch pack. As ya release yer lever the slave piston goes to the 15 degree position (naturally). So, yer settin's right--yer just noticin' the extra play in the clutch rack now. I guess yer concern is that the extra play is creatin' a featherin' of the clutch effect. It's quite the opposite. If there's play then the clutch may not disengage and yer gettin' a $hitty release in yer clutch pack.

Since my VV's workin' correctly, presently. I'll check the forward play on my '14, VV, later this morning. Get back to ya on that....

One thing tho--with Victory hydraulic clutches there's no adjustment. If yer slippin' then yer slippin… no recourse 'cept to replace the plates.
 

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I would not do a clutch without the service manual. A dealer mis-assembled my clutch pack 3 times. Don’t take their work for granted. If it is assembled correctly and still slips the spring is weakened.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks for clearing that up for me, Dave. I'll go with the easiest things first: check fluid level - overfilled - and pinion alignment. Now just to clarify, I'm not feeling any slipping. The guy tuning it said it slipped after, and only after, running it hard on the dyno for 90 minutes. He didn't feel it slip until beating on it and it was ready for the final run. LOL. Of course, I don't run my bike like it's on a dyno so if there was a little slip, I probably wouldn't feel it. So...when he said it slipped, I looked around for anything obvious and noticed the pinion didn't fully rotate back. When I showed him, he thought the pinion should rotate all the way back...and here we are..."there's something wrong here, right?" Thanks again.
 

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'K, checked free-play in my clutch pinion arm... very little. BadMonk ya've got a problem. When movin' the arm forward (as ya demonstrated on yer 2nd video) my armed moved maybe 2 degrees. So, I guess I'm wrong 'bout the amount of acceptable play. Yer demonstration indicates way too much movement.

As depot picker pointed out--when takin' yer bike to a shop beware the bad Tech.s. Thinkin' back on it... I had the kinda play ya show before I replaced my clutch. In the end, with 2 sets of clutch discs, shop work, and extra tools I was out more than $900. But, I'd do it again (if I had to) 'cept with more help from my friends.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Yeah, something's not quite right. Before taking it apart, I needed to verify the play at the clutch pinion. So it seems that it's time to take it apart. Since the pinion isn't rotating back by itself, it could be an issue with the clutch diaphragm spring. It’s what pushes the pinion back out; it's the only thing that counters the rotation applied by the clutch cable so...good place to start.

I don't take my bikes to shops, unless it's electronic stuff cuz I don't have that kind of equipment...like a dyno. LOL. Otherwise I've been riding since I'm 12 so been at it for 50 yrs and doing my mechanic work for a bunch of those years. It's getting physically harder to do now so I try to sort things out 'theoretically' before doing the labor. Less wear and tear on me...and the bike. I had three bikes in the garage for the last several years. The Vic and different 1980s bikes that needed lots of work. When I pulled the motor on a '84 Kaw 1100 by myself I figured that was it...too much...and scaled down to two bikes. Now I have the Vic and a '87 Goldwing that runs pretty good. The Vic (my third Vic) has been very good to me. It pulled 103 hp/ 112 ft. lbs. on the dyno. That's good for that motor and for an old guy. Just need to sort out the clutch now... sorry for rambling. Thanks for the verification on the pinion play,
 

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BadMonk… G'Luck w/that.
This is my 1st Vic. I've only had 'Wings 'til now an: '80 (GL1100A), '90 (GL1500) and a '99 (GL1500SE). All good bikes. As ya say, did most of my own work back then too. Aside from the positionin' of the pinion shaft on the last clutch job I don't know what I did wrong.

On aside note... my neighbor's been messin' with his '82 Suzuki clutch for a month and still can't get right. Before I delivered mine to the dealer I had it apart several times. So, I understand clutches can be quite complicated. They're simple enough--it's the reassembly that gets ya.
 

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Something you'll also want to check is that all the plates and steels are perfectly flat.
Sometimes they get bent ever so slightly in shipping. In which case you will never get your clutch to work right after assembly, until that plate is replaced.
Check them by first degreasing them and then placing them on a mirror,sheet of glass or a granite surface plate . Replace any that rock or that you can slide a feeler gauge under that exceeds the max warp if that spec is given in the manual.



Had to reorder a plate for a new spare set I purchased recently to keep on hand for the goldwing hack. All checked good but one. Apparently it had gotten bent at the dealer or during one of the shipping processes it had been through.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Here's the problem. A split pressure plate by Barnett. I installed it four or five years ago and don't believe they made HD plates at that time. Likely snapped while on the dyno.

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Here's the problem. A split pressure plate by Barnett. I installed it four or five years ago and don't believe they made HD plates at that time. Likely snapped while on the dyno.

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That is unbeleveble

I understand that the best combo for upgrading clutch is

STOCK victory BASKET
Aftermarket clutch plates
Rivera Primo Gold Comp spring

But i still have my original clutch so i do not know .... i wack the crap out of my Jack-Hammer so needless to say i will blow someting up in the next few years ...

Andre using TaPaTaLk
 
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