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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
My Power Commander V and Auto Tune came in yesterday and I'm picking it up today. Having looked through what little documentation is available I have a question for anyone that has this installed as far as how you actually use it.

Apparently the Auto Tune and PCV are set to the pre-configured map for my bike's configuration (2011 106 CI/Performance pipes and air filter). As best as I can understand it, the Auto Tune will collect trim table info as I ride that's being used to keep the bike at the target AFR's specified. When you select 'Accept All Trims' from the Map Tools menu, it transfers the trim map entries to the PCV and zero's out the Auto Tune trim entries. The idea here being that the trim's you collect after that will get smaller and smaller as you progressively dial-in the bike.

It seems there are two schools of thought on this. Some say just leave it alone and let the Auto Tune keep the bike in tune rather than accepting the trims. For those that have this system installed, how do you do this? Do you leave the Auto Tune trims alone and just let it keep adjusting on the fly, or do you accept/zero the trims and transfer them to the PCV to progressively dial in the PCV map? What are the advantages/disadvantages?
 

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My Power Commander V and Auto Tune came in yesterday and I'm picking it up today. Having looked through what little documentation is available I have a question for anyone that has this installed as far as how you actually use it.

Apparently the Auto Tune and PCV are set to the pre-configured map for my bike's configuration (2011 106 CI/Performance pipes and air filter). As best as I can understand it, the Auto Tune will collect trim table info as I ride that's being used to keep the bike at the target AFR's specified. When you select 'Accept All Trims' from the Map Tools menu, it transfers the trim map entries to the PCV and zero's out the Auto Tune trim entries. The idea here being that the trim's you collect after that will get smaller and smaller as you progressively dial-in the bike.

It seems there are two schools of thought on this. Some say just leave it alone and let the Auto Tune keep the bike in tune rather than accepting the trims. For those that have this system installed, how do you do this? Do you leave the Auto Tune trims alone and just let it keep adjusting on the fly, or do you accept/zero the trims and transfer them to the PCV to progressively dial in the PCV map? What are the advantages/disadvantages?
I think you got the two schools of thought a little combined. The premise is to go ahead and accept trims, but then once you get it pretty refined, remove the AT unit (and wide band o2 sensors) altogether. I believe the thought process is that it preserves the sensors longer, and at this point, you just have the fixed fuel map that was derived from the Auto Tune. Personally, I don't see any benefit. Leave the AT hooked up, but still accept the trims periodically. The Auto Tune will still constantly be keeping the AFRs where you want them on the fly (but theoretically, the variances won't be as large)... If you think about it, this is what every modern automobile on the road does, and you don't see anyone disconnecting those sensors to preserve their lifespan.
 

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"increasing lifespan" notwithstanding, you don't have to remove the AT unit and sensors to turn it off. You can globally or even selectively turn off autotune by simply putting in a zero AFR map into the unit. That is, the AT software sees 0's as a signal to skip over those cells and not autotune there at all.

You have the right idea with ride, accept trims, ride. Once refined, your options are to disable autotune like above, or to reduce the enrichment/enleanment limits. I recommend the latter because you can reduce hunting (which honestly is not a big problem on these units once you are zeroed in), while allowing for some variation in environmental factors. The thing to note is if you have anrich/leanment limits of say +/-5, and you see values of +/-5 in your trim map, you should either accept the trim and retune, or widen your limits because you may be out of tune in those cells since the software is maxed out.

Finally, autotune works well in cells that can be easily reached in a steady state. 0% throttle at anything above idle, for example is not a column you want to turn on autotune for- it will just be wrong and can cause major popping. in fact, most maps I've seen have a zero AFR in the 0% column for this very reason.
 

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"increasing lifespan" notwithstanding, you don't have to remove the AT unit and sensors to turn it off. You can globally or even selectively turn off autotune by simply putting in a zero AFR map into the unit. That is, the AT software sees 0's as a signal to skip over those cells and not autotune there at all.
In the DynoJet software there is an option to enable or disable the AutoTune, one check in the block and done much easier than zeroing out a column in the fuel table.
 

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In the DynoJet software there is an option to enable or disable the AutoTune, one check in the block and done much easier than zeroing out a column in the fuel table.
True, but there is no reason to do this, other than for the hope of preserving the sensors. However, the only way to do that, is to get them out of the exhaust stream. But, if this is so critical, why don't cars have issues with sensor longevity?

Also, the maps that are supplied for our bikes are typically crazy rich, especially if you get the unit from FuelMoto. You can easily subtract about 2-5 10ths from whatever they have as AFR values....
 

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I'm still kinda new to this, but I'm thinking one of the advantages to something like an autotune would be to have it adjust real time for things like altitude (air density) and temperature on the fly. Thus it would seem the best method would be to allow the unit to operate constantly...or do I have my head up my?
 

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I'm still kinda new to this, but I'm thinking one of the advantages to something like an autotune would be to have it adjust real time for things like altitude (air density) and temperature on the fly. Thus it would seem the best method would be to allow the unit to operate constantly...or do I have my head up my?
That's why I leave mine functioning all the time.
 

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I'm still kinda new to this, but I'm thinking one of the advantages to something like an autotune would be to have it adjust real time for things like altitude (air density) and temperature on the fly. Thus it would seem the best method would be to allow the unit to operate constantly...or do I have my head up my?
Yep. That's the idea. But, the option is there to selectively enable or disable if you want, for whatever reason you may have. Testing, or drag runs, for example (wouldn't be hard to comw up with many more).
 

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Disabling the AT also gives you the option to control the toggle option, giving you access to select from two different fuel maps on the fly. With the AT enabled, the toggle inputs are driven to the base map or learn mode for the AT.
 

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I guess I can see disabling it for special operations, but for normal use I can't imagine why. With the wide range O2 sensors I would think it would be a closed loop system.
 

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I ordered a PC5 without the auto tune. Hoping the map already on the site will do me fine. Loydz has a customized PC3 that he says fixes most problems so figure since I'm not worried about 100% optimization and only want good looking plugs and no backfire, should be OK without the autotune.
 

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I ordered a PC5 without the auto tune. Hoping the map already on the site will do me fine. Loydz has a customized PC3 that he says fixes most problems so figure since I'm not worried about 100% optimization and only want good looking plugs and no backfire, should be OK without the autotune.
Look at autotune as one way among many to get a good map. It's ideal if you don't want to, or don't have access to a dyno tuning facility and you want a custom-tailored map to extract the most possible HP, or deal with a fueling issue you just can't seem to get rid of on your own. It's not inherently better or worse than other approaches until you dig into the specific environmental factors you may be dealing with. Then it's really up to you to decide which approach works the best for your needs.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Thanks for all the feedback. It's really helpful at this point as I'm somewhat overwhelmed by the learning curve right now.

Interestingly enough, the tech that installed this and initially set it up for me used the hammer map with stock exhaust and air filter versus the one that best matches my bike which was the 106 CI with performance exhaust and air filter. He said he's had better luck starting with that map since the others tend to be too lean and foul plugs after a while. He only made some minor changes to lean out the lower range/lower throttle settings on the AFR map which pretty much eliminated my popping, so I guess he knows what he's doing.

I figure I'll ride for a bit with this map in place and collect some trims and see what it's doing. No reason to start changing things right away. Unfortunately it was raining by the time I rode home so I didn't get much of a feel for the effect of the unit, but today appears to be clear so I'll get some riding done today and see what happens.

Update: Was able to take it out for about an hour this morning. No highway runs, just in town roads up to around 55 mph. Apparently the tech was right about his initial settings. No decel popping and a considerable boost in quick power delivery through 4th and 5th gear between 40 and 60 mph. I didn't even realize I was lagging in that range until I felt this. I should be able to take it out for some highway runs later this afternoon. So far, I'm liking what I'm feeling.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I ordered a PC5 without the auto tune. Hoping the map already on the site will do me fine. Loydz has a customized PC3 that he says fixes most problems so figure since I'm not worried about 100% optimization and only want good looking plugs and no backfire, should be OK without the autotune.
I hope their map is better than the one Dynojet puts out for the 106 with stage 1 stuff. That was supposed to be the right one for my bike, but it actually aggravated the decel popping when I applied it. From the looks of the map, I think they were trying to maximize power so they leaned it out a bit too much at the low end and ended up increasing the decel popping.
 

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Now I'm confused again. If the autotune constantly adjusts the map for current conditions, I would think the initial map load would be irrelevant after a few minutes of riding at operating temperature.
No?
 

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Now I'm confused again. If the autotune constantly adjusts the map for current conditions, I would think the initial map load would be irrelevant after a few minutes of riding at operating temperature.
No?
generally, yes. but one of the things i've learned by doing it is that low-throttle fueling issues (such as hesitations on roll-on or strong deceleration pops) can be exacerbated by a poor map, and autotune does not work very well at tuning those out. manual tuning is often necessary to tweak cells that cannot easily see a "steady state" for a long enough time that the autotune can interpolate a fuel trim that makes sense.

As an example, because the engine under real riding conditions is not going to be at 3500 RPM and 0% throttle for more than just a fraction of a second, the value that autotune derives for that cell will usually be a result of factors right before or after that engine speed and RPM. As such, the values will be wrong there. That's why the dynojet maps come with zeroes in the 0% column from he factory.

There is a value is a properly-tuned base map, even with autotune. But autotune still has value- you just need to understand its limitations and work around them.
 

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I hope their map is better than the one Dynojet puts out for the 106 with stage 1 stuff. That was supposed to be the right one for my bike, but it actually aggravated the decel popping when I applied it. From the looks of the map, I think they were trying to maximize power so they leaned it out a bit too much at the low end and ended up increasing the decel popping.
I was going to say the same thing. The map that dynojet has for my bike was awful. It pulled hard under full throttle but generally just ran like crap everywhere else. The popping was terrible. I'm pretty sure they do that on purpose to try to make people go to dyno tuners or buy their auto tune. Luckily I have a dyno shop 5 miles away that did a custom tune for me for $150. Now it's great.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Now I'm confused again. If the autotune constantly adjusts the map for current conditions, I would think the initial map load would be irrelevant after a few minutes of riding at operating temperature.
No?
I'm not sure, but I think you may be confusing which "maps", or "tables" (more accurately) are being discussed here. I'm no expert on this, but the maps you load from dynojet has specific "best" throttle trim settings for each of the cylinders as determined by them in their dyno runs on that particular bike and configuration and these are stored in the PCV.

If you have Autotune, you also have separate maps for that. Each cylinder has a target AFR table, and a trim table. The target AFR table comes pre-populated with the different AFR settings within each cell as determined "best" by dynojet when they do their dyno runs. This is generally where you will make your corrections to get the responsiveness you're looking for. Autotune will, over time, begin to populate the Autotune trim table based on the target AFR's you put in. The trim table in the PCV would become irrelevant as the autotune trim tables take over this function when they populate. But the autotune trim tables are trying to correct to the AFR settings you've specified in the Autotune AFR table, so the AFR table is always relevant because it is what Autotune is trying to correct to.

I hope that makes sense.
 
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