Victory Motorcycle Forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have an apt July 25 with Lloydz to get some VM1-DR cams installed in my 13 Hammer. I have now seen some posts where guys have installed the VM1-HPT-DR cams on the Touring bikes and the gains are huge. Granted you need to modify the cam carriers at an extra cost.

Why are these cams not recomended for the cruisers?

I'm all about the extra power-even at the extra cost.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,858 Posts
I have an apt July 25 with Lloydz to get some VM1-DR cams installed in my 13 Hammer. I have now seen some posts where guys have installed the VM1-HPT-DR cams on the Touring bikes and the gains are huge. Granted you need to modify the cam carriers at an extra cost.

Why are these cams not recomended for the cruisers?

I'm all about the extra power-even at the extra cost.
Who said they aren't recommended for cruisers? The reality is that many recommend against them for most RIDERS. It has nothing to do with the bike itself. It is law of diminishing returns. You can install the VM1's for X or you can install the HPTs for X + 1/2X additional. However, you only get 15% (or so) more performance out of them and that performance is at the higher range of the RPM scale where few riders actually run their bikes so for the majority of riders, the standard VM1s do a great job at a great price. But I am like you and will probably go for the HPTs as well simply so that I can have the highest HP when I go against the other bikes at the Dyno "power" contests that they have around here at a few of the bike events/shows.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Who said they aren't recommended for cruisers? The reality is that many recommend against them for most RIDERS. It has nothing to do with the bike itself. It is law of diminishing returns. You can install the VM1's for X or you can install the HPTs for X + 1/2X additional. However, you only get 15% (or so) more performance out of them and tht performance is at the higher rane of the RPM scale where few riders actually run their bikes so for the majority of riders, the standard VM1s do a great job at a great price. But I am like you and will probably go for the HPTs as well simply so that I can have the highest HP when I go against the other bikes at the Dyno "power" contests that they have around here at a few of the bike events/shows.
I want to drag my bike as much as possible-so revving it doesn't seem such a bad idea to me. I figure these cams and a underdrive pulley would make for a potent combo.

For me the big already has plenty of torque-just seems to run out of jam too early. And too much torque will just make the bike harder to launch.

I'm going to call Lloydz and talk to Danny on Monday and see what they suggest.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
352 Posts
I want to drag my bike as much as possible-so revving it doesn't seem such a bad idea to me. I figure these cams and a underdrive pulley would make for a potent combo.

For me the big already has plenty of torque-just seems to run out of jam too early. And too much torque will just make the bike harder to launch.

I'm going to call Lloydz and talk to Danny on Monday and see what they suggest.
What is too much torque ???
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
352 Posts
Enough that it overcomes a tire's ability put it to use in propelling the bike forward at ever increasing velocities.
Uh...yea , thanks.....

My point was that you will not get 'too much torque' from either version of the Lloydz cams.....

Peter
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
What is too much torque ???

Those are beautiful curves for sure.

I remember reading a post from half crazy where he stated the bigger cube motor raised his 60 fts from 1.6 to mid 1.7's due to the extra torque and wheel spin.

From my experience in drag racing-too much torque makes it harder to launch. I have enough torque now-but an extra 30 horse would be awesome! Seems like the touring cams are making almost 15 rwhp more than just the DR cams.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
547 Posts
Those are beautiful curves for sure.

I remember reading a post from half crazy where he stated the bigger cube motor raised his 60 fts from 1.6 to mid 1.7's due to the extra torque and wheel spin.

From my experience in drag racing-too much torque makes it harder to launch. I have enough torque now-but an extra 30 horse would be awesome! Seems like the touring cams are making almost 15 rwhp more than just the DR cams.

Thai is just a wild guess, but if you did get the HPT, I think, you'd see much better gains than a touring bike due to your TT intake. steel frame bikes already make more with the DR cams, but the HPT allow a lot more on the top end.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
403 Posts
Actually the Touring cams will not make as much usable power in a steel frame bike as they will in the cast frame bikes. I can't even say that they would make more high-end HP.

Here is an engine that we did a couple of years ago. Red is the Touring cam, blue is the 495 cam. I think this was a 109, or 116 big bore Kingpin. Anyway, as they always say, don't go too big with the cam, pick the right cam for the combination.

If you are bringing your bike to Lloyd I'm sure he'll talk you into the RIGHT cam for your combination. For a stock motor 09+ bike the VM1 IMHO is the best for a 106".
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,858 Posts
Actually the Touring cams will not make as much usable power in a steel frame bike as they will in the cast frame bikes. I can't even say that they would make more high-end HP.

Here is an engine that we did a couple of years ago. Red is the Touring cam, blue is the 495 cam. I think this was a 109, or 116 big bore Kingpin. Anyway, as they always say, don't go too big with the cam, pick the right cam for the combination.

If you are bringing your bike to Lloyd I'm sure he'll talk you into the RIGHT cam for your combination. For a stock motor 09+ bike the VM1 IMHO is the best for a 106".
Rylan - I think that this was a comparison of the HOH-VM1-DR to the HOH-VM1-HPT-DRs rather than the S&S 495. My point was that the Tubular framed bikes can feed more air into the engine regardless of the CAMs but it sounds like you may not agree with that premise. If you are including the Vision's in that equation, it makes sense but not for the Cross Bikes so perhaps we may need to be more specific here when referencing the "cast frame" bikes. You can put the torque tubes on the tubluar bikes but can't put them on a Cross Frame bikes. It looks like the 495 was better than the ...HPT or was that graph vs. the VM1s on that particular Kingpin?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
403 Posts
Rylan - I think that this was a comparison of the HOH-VM1-DR to the HOH-VM1-HPT-DRs rather than the S&S 495. My point was that the Tubular framed bikes can feed more air into the engine regardless of the CAMs but it sounds like you may not agree with that premise. If you are including the Vision's in that equation, it makes sense but not for the Cross Bikes so perhaps we may need to be more specific here when referencing the "cast frame" bikes. You can put the torque tubes on the tubluar bikes but can't put them on a Cross Frame bikes. It looks like the 495 was better than the ...HPT or was that graph vs. the VM1s on that particular Kingpin?
Yep, I get it. Yes, this particular graph I posted was with the S&S cams verses the Touring cam, but the point is the same: There is always a "best" cam for your combination, and if you seek the advise of a engine builder that has built a lot of these motors and he steers you away from...lets say, a Touring cam in a '13 Hammer...there is probably a good reason.

So back to what the OP I think was asking: I know its easy to look at the Vision/Xbike graphs with the Touring cam and think "well, that looks awesome, the Touring cam should work just as well in my Hammer", but actually there is a cam that will work better. I would suggest just the simple VM1. This grind is damn good on the steel frames as well as the Cast framed bikes, whereas the Touring cam really shines with the intake/exhaust of the Cast frame bikes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,400 Posts
cams + compression

new to Vics + will never do cams unless motor breaks + needs to be opened up. in automotive applications higher lift + duration cams that make more top end power generally need more compression to make up for cylinder pressure loss due to increased overlap. never seen any mention of increasing compression which also usually makes better torque, of course the limiting factor being octane to control engine pinging. for ultimate power cam upgrades as part of a total upgrade with intake + exhaust and dyno tune is what some riders want, to me its not cost efficient + as with cars the higher lever of power costs more per HP than basic intake, exhaust + fuel tuner, power commander with a dyno also adds cost. of course its your $$$ and enjoy it if you have deeper pockets than most!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,858 Posts
new to Vics + will never do cams unless motor breaks + needs to be opened up. in automotive applications higher lift + duration cams that make more top end power generally need more compression to make up for cylinder pressure loss due to increased overlap. never seen any mention of increasing compression which also usually makes better torque, of course the limiting factor being octane to control engine pinging. for ultimate power cam upgrades as part of a total upgrade with intake + exhaust and dyno tune is what some riders want, to me its not cost efficient + as with cars the higher lever of power costs more per HP than basic intake, exhaust + fuel tuner, power commander with a dyno also adds cost. of course its your $$$ and enjoy it if you have deeper pockets than most!
You are new to Victory so you may want to re-read this thread. You CAN get a significant bump from "just cams" on any Victory bike. You may be more famliar with Harley's that require head work, stroke & bore in order to get similar results. It is certainly true that getting an HD to perform anywhere NEAR a cam'd Victory can and often is cost prohibitive. Here is how you can gain 35HP+ in a Victory for a reasonable price point. $130 for Lloyds Air Filter, $200 for a used Power Commander V, $150 for a used AutoTune & $520 for VM1 CAMs from Lloyds. There is no need to replace the exhaust as the OEM pipes are actually some of the best performing (not sounding) pipes out there so for less than what some Harley riders sink into a stage 1 exhaust ($1,000) you can actually increase your performance by as much as 30%. Try doing that on a Harley... :cool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,347 Posts
Uh...yea , thanks.....

My point was that you will not get 'too much torque' from either version of the Lloydz cams.....

Peter
These cams will give you more torque than what Sad Bag, and Barack consider acceptable for the Average american citizen that is not smart enough to realize that Al Gore Should dictate what you drive/ride.

Do you realize the pollution that you will put out compared to a Leaf/Volt/Prius?.
Planet killer!!!!:ltr:

Build that bitch strong dude, MORE POWER to you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,400 Posts
basics done

timing wheel, ness air cleaner + dobeck AFR + Gen IV all new installed by me about $600. tri-pro installed by original owner with stage I upgrade at the dealer, drilled for better sound + performance. runs cooler + butt dyno says faster, thats good for me. changed cams in several cars but never any bikes, from whats posted it seems to cost more than most admit. as i said whatever you like as its your $$$. most will not install cams theirself + a good dyno guy is needed to setup the maps in a power commander at xtra $$$. the gains from intake + exhaust and revised fueling is prolly half the power gain. the dobeck gen IV unit is excellent + easily set by most anyone. doing your own work is a big savings but many need or have everything done for them @ $75 to $100 an hour it can get costly, but again its your $$$$, happy riding!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,858 Posts
...most will not install cams theirself + a good dyno guy is needed to setup the maps ... many need or have everything done for them @ $75 to $100 an hour it can get costly, but again its your $$$$, happy riding!!
Labor to install the cams is around $400 (give or take a hundred) so not THAT bad after all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
timing wheel, ness air cleaner + dobeck AFR + Gen IV all new installed by me about $600. tri-pro installed by original owner with stage I upgrade at the dealer, drilled for better sound + performance. runs cooler + butt dyno says faster, thats good for me. changed cams in several cars but never any bikes, from whats posted it seems to cost more than most admit. as i said whatever you like as its your $$$. most will not install cams theirself + a good dyno guy is needed to setup the maps in a power commander at xtra $$$. the gains from intake + exhaust and revised fueling is prolly half the power gain. the dobeck gen IV unit is excellent + easily set by most anyone. doing your own work is a big savings but many need or have everything done for them @ $75 to $100 an hour it can get costly, but again its your $$$$, happy riding!!
I'm coming from the C5/C6 Corvette world where I did all the the cam, header, supercharger install and tunes myself.

Trust me, modding my bike has been the cheapest thing I have ever did.

The cost to install and tune the cams-I won't lose any sleep over that-infact I'll be sleeping with the smile on my face knowing one of the best in the business did it and it did not break the bank.

cheers
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top