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The absolute one and ONLY driver to blame for the bikes crash was the bike rider. Each driver is responsible for leaving an "assured clear distance" between them and any vehicle they are following. If a vehicle in front of you slams on the brakes, you need to be driving in such a manner that you can stop without hitting anything. As a biker, you also need to keep an eye on the vehicles behind you when you emergency stop to make sure you are not going to get obliterated by the vehicle immediately behind you. So... bottom line... the crash of the bike was the bikers fault.

G'day,

Vinish
 

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Oh no, I locked up the rear!

Oh, I know!

I'll Fred Flintstone it!!!
 

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Scared to use the front brake.
It seems that this is a hard custom to beat in the USA, and only in the USA.... I know you guys use the 70front/30rear rule of thumb breaking, but there are some hard core rear brake believers out there at your side of the pond .....

So when you get your license, don't they teach you that in school? In Holland it is not easy to get ANY type of licence... It is hard work for many months, and expensive, coz the teacher is very professional....

Andre using TaPaTaLk
 

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It seems that this is a hard custom to beat in the USA, and only in the USA.... I know you guys use the 70front/30rear rule of thumb breaking, but there are some hard core rear brake believers out there at your side of the pond .....

So when you get your license, don't they teach you that in school? In Holland it is not easy to get ANY type of licence... It is hard work for many months, and expensive, coz the teacher is very professional....

Andre using TaPaTaLk
In the US we prefer to drive like freakin idiots.
 

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License tests in the US have been dumbed down as well as our education system. Its part of a national program of inclusiveness. We are told we must include and accept all, no matter what. Also, each state has its own standards for licensing drivers. Oregon doesn't test to see if you can parallel park, so you should see the strange attempts that block traffic for many minutes.
I lost count of the jerk riders who tell me they use only the rear brake.
 

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Oh no, I locked up the rear!

Oh, I know!

I'll Fred Flintstone it!!!
Absolutely unbelievable!

How this clown has survived for however long he's been riding escapes me.

Not only does he give it a big fat boot full of too much rear brake, he then throws the towel in and shoves his feet on the roadway, expecting that to slow him quicker than perfectly good motorcycle brakes!

How lucky he was that the oncoming vehicle wasn't a second or two further back from where it was. His head might have ended up as a bumper bar ornament if that had been the case.

That's incompetence, right there...
 
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License tests in the US have been dumbed down as well as our education system. Its part of a national program of inclusiveness. We are told we must include and accept all, no matter what. Also, each state has its own standards for licensing drivers. Oregon doesn't test to see if you can parallel park, so you should see the strange attempts that block traffic for many minutes.
I lost count of the jerk riders who tell me they use only the rear brake.
Yeah....but you know....there are those (even on this forum) who'll tell you that a rear brake is only for slowing down, not stopping. That it'll make you crash....which is equally absurd as using it exclusively.

Or those who tell you that using brakes in a curve will make you crash.

Braking myths abound.
 
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I learned early on that my XR's rear brake was too powerful and in hard stops it was difficult not to lock the rear wheel. Turned out the rear OEM pads are HH rated, so I swapped them for cheapo GG and that resulted in far better rear rake control, for I use the rear a lot for trail braking in the twisties. BTW, EBC HH in the fronts was a huge improvement over those wooden OEM pads.
 

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It's interesting that I think I've seen you say that before about the HH pads. But I run EBC HH on front and back of my XC and I don't find the rear to be too grabby when I'm trail braking.

I wouldn't be against trying different pads on the rear to see if I agree that they feel different in a good way.
 
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I learned early on that my XR's rear brake was too powerful and in hard stops it was difficult not to lock the rear wheel. Turned out the rear OEM pads are HH rated, so I swapped them for cheapo GG and that resulted in far better rear rake control, for I use the rear a lot for trail braking in the twisties. BTW, EBC HH in the fronts was a huge improvement over those wooden OEM pads.
I have EBC front and rear. They are nice and stop a Vision well.
 

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I have EBC front and rear. They are nice and stop a Vision well.
Your Vision carries a lot more weight on the rear than does my XR. Because of weight transferring to the front under hard braking, HH pads were too grabby and I'd get lockup. Not a good thing in a dicey situation when the brain is approaching overload. One less thing to have to concentrate on.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I don't find fault with the guy slamming on the rear brake. We all have car/truck mentality. We have been taught since we first got our licens put foot on brake to stop. When I ride the bike I tell myself over an over front brake first. It kind helps but the brain still says foot on brake.
On the front I wish victory had a smaller master cylinder and a shorter hand lever. Then we all could stop faster. Now to really get good brake leverage you have to grab the very end of the lever to really apply pressure to the brake.

Skull try oem pads for the rear they don't grab and you can drift the rear pretty good
 

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Im still getting used to the fact that I have ABS on the bike, Im a user of both brakes and having assisted breaking is also a new one for me.
The front brake on the Vision grabs nicely but for hard stops I still use both evenly. Im not sure what the best way to apply the brakes is given my 2017 Vision is the way it is, my understanding is applying the rear brake applies 30% assisted braking to the front one as well..
 

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We use to rent out bigger scooters so people could go and take their motorcycle course at the DMV.....notice I said USE to.....

That person reminds me of a rider I encountered out west when we got about 150 miles into Colorado, just outside Steam boat springs if I remember correct, when I got into the back of the line, there was four other people ahead of me, single biker at the front was doing 25-35 in a 60MPH zone......curve....brakkkkeeeeeee...speed up.....curve....brakkkkkeeeee...speed up....for at least 15 miles......never looked back to see what was going on..don't know if they checked their mirrors....people behind them were not happy....including me...when its broad daylight with no trees and you can see from the road sides to the tree lines at least a half mile.....man....do at least the speed limit....

If I am out and about in a place I am not familiar with and I see a local up on my rear end, I get over and let them pass.

Going under the limit is just as dangerous if not more then going over the limit in my eyes.
 

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Paulie, I had a somewhat similar experience in the Black Hills. On a curvy (not twisty) road, a couple two up on a Harley tourer that would slow way down for a curve and then proceed around it VERTICALLY! Later, we met and diplomatically, I broached the subject and offered up some tips. He thanked me and said he'd work on them. Before parting, we exchanged email and phone numbers. He calls me occasionally and never forgets to thank me for improving his riding experience.
 

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Im still getting used to the fact that I have ABS on the bike, Im a user of both brakes and having assisted breaking is also a new one for me.
The front brake on the Vision grabs nicely but for hard stops I still use both evenly. Im not sure what the best way to apply the brakes is given my 2017 Vision is the way it is, my understanding is applying the rear brake applies 30% assisted braking to the front one as well..
If you brake hard on the rear alone it will also engage the front partially.

Using the rear regularly, it works regularly.

For hard braking I'll hammer both just like any other bike I've had, using proper technique to keep from locking up. I don't find ABS or them being linked changes anything. My 08 doesn't have ABS and my 13 does, I ride then the same.

ABS only kicks on if the sensor is tripped. That happens by the tire losing traction. Using my emergency breaking technique learned in my motors course I've never activated the ABS on my 13 that I can remember.
 

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Paulie, I had a somewhat similar experience in the Black Hills. On a curvy (not twisty) road, a couple two up on a Harley tourer that would slow way down for a curve and then proceed around it VERTICALLY! Later, we met and diplomatically, I broached the subject and offered up some tips. He thanked me and said he'd work on them. Before parting, we exchanged email and phone numbers. He calls me occasionally and never forgets to thank me for improving his riding experience.
This person was either not paying attention to what going on behind them or the speed limit signs, I mean 20+ below the limit and WIDE turns into the other lane, double lines the whole way and the people behind them either didn't wanna scare the rider or risk getting a ticket, my co-pilot was getting more worked up then I was..at first....but after mile 10 and this person was still doing it after the lead vehicles flashing the lights and honking and this person just out in some dream land with their bike, it gets a little.....erksome......I get it...its a sight to behold everywhere you look...so PULL OVER AND LOOK AND LOOK AT IT....

I watched rangers in Yellowstone hit the lights to get slower people over. Our trip in 2015 on the one day we spent the whole day in the northwest part of the park and once you get out there in some parts it goes UUUUPPPPPPPP and the speed limit is mostly stuck at 35-45......older guy was doing a MAX of 25......We caught up to the convoy and was six or seven back....Ranger in a truck was number two back and could tell that the older gent had to have been white knuckling it, get into a corner and toss out the anchor.....speed up to the next one and repeat...and when I say speed up I mean they never got over 25 from down to 5 or 10 mph......that is super sketchy out there, its tells you every other 1/4 please us pull outs to allow faster traffic. Ranger must have had enough and hit his lights, car in front of him got over and he got around them and pulled slow poke over, we went by and the ranger was out of his truck and going up to the car no idea what happened.

Seems to happen a lot in the smokies too. A lot of those roads I know myself for going there so much and drove in all conditions. I do just fine and if someone gets in line behind me and can keep up or is going faster, I'll get over for them and let them carry on about their day.
 

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Those flatlanders, being scared of curves, can ruin your day. A bit off the subject of bad drivers, but last Sunday, I took my 15 year old great granddaughter out in the 300C for her first driving lessons with me and that car. She had very little seat time prior to this, which is good, because my goal here is to make a driver out of her and not a car mover.
First thing was seat and wheel adjustment and body posture. Then side mirror adjustment so none of the car is seen in them. Then we did some parking maneuvers, backing into spaces using only the mirrors. Yeah, I'm a tough (but very gentle) teacher. That was followed by full lock circles going gradually faster to let her feel the strong adhesion tires have to the road.
We were at a huge electronics firm's gigantic parking lot, Sunday empty. Lots of curvy roads, various intersection situations and "islands" of various shapes and sizes. I had her do slaloms weaving through a series of them and she aced it, eventually doing it quite fast.
She began this saying how scared she was of this and that and three hours later, she was very confident, and proud of her newly learned skills, skills that many experienced "drivers" can not execute.
I attached two videos; the first shows the her and the car slaloming the islands and the second show her action on the wheel - note how she passes the wheel - mostly (as I taught her) for better control. She learns quickly and will be good driver. She doesn't know it yet, but I intend to take her to Portland International Raceway for a track day after she and I think she's up to it. Next...Daytona!

https://www.facebook.com/ric.zittenfield/videos/1824222760945185/

https://www.facebook.com/ric.zittenfield/videos/1824235720943889/
 
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