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I'm putting this in the Victory discussion even though it's directly about Harley. Indirectly though; it's about all bike prices in general. With the market being depressed due to an aging customer base; it won't only affect one brand. I guess with Victory it's kinda a moot point since they quit anyway and pushed the value down on our Vic's but this does add another downward force to consider.

It's sad young people today are far more content to sit in a recliner with their X-Box or whatever and play virtual games rather than get a motorcycle and feel the wind and feeling of flying while never leaving the ground. Gonna be a lot of fat 20, 30, and 40 year olds if this trend continues... and they are going to miss out on real life by settling for their virtual one.

Harley-Davidson cuts shipments forecast; shares skid

"We are downgrading Harley-Davidson to 'market-perform' based on increased conviction that motorcycle demand in the United States is in the throes of secular erosion," Bernstein analyst David Beckel said.
Beckel noted that the "Generation Y" - those born in the 1980s and early 1990s - was adopting motorcycling at a far lower rate than prior generations.
-snip-
The company said it expected to ship 39,000 to 44,000 motorcycles in the current quarter, suggesting a decline of up to 20 percent.
Retail motorcycle sales fell 9.3 percent in the United States, its biggest market, and 6.7 percent globally in the second quarter ended June 25.
Harley said its share in the U.S. big-bike market fell to 48.5 percent from 49.5 percent a year earlier.
-snip-
Revenue per motorcycle rose about $437 to $15,530 in the quarter, but revenue from motorcycles and related products fell about 5.6 percent to $1.58 billion.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
At this point I'm glad I decided to just hang on to what I have but if things continue on this trend line; it will really put a dent in the value of our bikes.
 

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Really difficult to ride a motorcycle and text or facebook at the same time (although I have seen it done, much to my dismay). The Gen Y'ers just don't givafuk. Cars, too. They can just get an Uber so they can get to where they want and not have to take their nose out of their phone or tablet.
 

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Here in UK

Dunno about the US and rest of the world but our government don't help the motorcycling sales here in the UK. At 17 years old you can do a theory and practical test in a car and drive pretty much what you want.

For a motorcycle at 17 you have 2 tests before you can ride up to a 125cc. anything bigger you are hit with another 2 tests and restricted to 33hp until 24 years old when you can take another 2 tests on 600cc for a full license to ride anything. Whilst i agree somewhat with the level of training involved i can see why young un's prefer to skip the bike test in favour of a car.... a big fast car if they want as there's no restriction whatsoever!

Enough to put anyone off riding a bike in my humble opinion. Only kids who are really dedicated to biking see it though.

There is talk of the age being lowered to 21 next year but more intense training and tests.
 

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@whooshbang I've been to a few countries in Europe over the years and have to say the average bike rider there has a skill level far superior to NA where it's a much simpler process. Something in the middle could be as effective and still be beneficial.

Here, take an elementary test on a 125cc bike then go lay down daddy's money on a 600RR. Stupid.

Your system is overly heavy on the admin side of things for a bike and certainly unfair when compared to the route needed for a car license. An advantage to that however is very evident when watching the traffic flow. A huge difference.
 

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When I was in my early 20's most of the people I rode with were in their early 40's to to mid 50's.
These guys were life long dedicated riders.
In sitting around listening to them talk about the history of motorcycling during their lifetime it became apparent that motorcycling for much the public was mostly a fad thing. It came and it went.
Bikes would be very popular for several years then soon very few were riding, and their value fell accordingly. Then several years later it would catch back on.


I'm not surprised that is declining at this point. It has been popular for a very long time this go round.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Some excellent points Joe. For a time, riding wasn't just something I liked to do, it was a lifestyle. Now it's back to being something I like to do. For most people it's a hobby or maybe a part time warrior thing. I personally can't remember a time as a kid, no matter how young, that I didn't dream about riding motorcycles. I guess some people are just born to it.

That feeling of flying through the sweeps and twisties never stops being a good feeling though. I do like doing it on a bike that feels solid (Vic) over one that has that back end wobbly feeling (certain HD's). It really is the closest thing to flying without leaving the road.
 

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Honda wrote a paper on this back in 2012 I believe. There are a lot of reasons for the decline and some good one expressed above. I will state a lot of younger folks are woosified and downright scared of motorcycles and a lot of things. Boys have been taught to be feminized by new social norms from radical leftist teachers. Most do not have the disposable income due to the our politicians buying into the CFR scam of free trade that has sent jobs out of this country by the millions, or that sucking sound Ross Perot talked of back in the early 90s. Those that go to college and take the safe spaces courses are unemployable and can not figure out what went wrong. Those that go into engineering or other employable degrees are straddled with huge debt ( up to 200k ) and have little extra money for some time. The younger generation is really into tech toys and do not want a motorcycle, an auto, or even a house, they are content to waste away in Moms basement. I really think this ongoing decline will continue. The motorcycle mfg. are well aware of it and soon you will see some leaving the market altogether, at least in the US.
 

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For a motorcycle at 17 you have 2 tests before you can ride up to a 125cc. anything bigger you are hit with another 2 tests and restricted to 33hp until 24 years old when you can take another 2 tests on 600cc for a full license to ride anything.

I had to pay $23 and take a 25 question, multiple choice test. Got my license 5 mins later.



If a tomato is a fruit, does that make ketchup a smoothie?
 

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Is anyone else shocked to see that HD makes $15k on every bike they sell! Holy crap! The car manufacturers would love to get half that.
 

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Is anyone else shocked to see that HD makes $15k on every bike they sell! Holy crap! The car manufacturers would love to get half that.


Seriously? $15k?


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Something is wrong. There is no way they make $15K per bike sold. Perhaps there is a math error or perhaps this is the total profit (including that from all sources of revenue) diivided by the number of bikes sold or perhaps this is some interim financial figure (not profit) divided by number of bikes sold.

G'day,

Vinish
 

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Hey

Hey not everyone wants a brand new bike ya know!
I've never ever bought a brand new vehicle of any type and have no intention to.

Hands HD a tissue for its tears.
Here in Oz lots of youth are more content to build up bobbers out of early iron than buy new.
Creativity still abounds here.
 

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Is anyone else shocked to see that HD makes $15k on every bike they sell! Holy crap! The car manufacturers would love to get half that.
If you add up, chrome accessories and performance accessories, installation, riding gear, cups, tee shirts, all that stuff associated with the sale of a new bike that would not have happened if that bike had not been bought?? Who knows.

Of course you need the extended warranty from your dealer. $1500, the dealer gets a piece of that. The dealer gets a kickback from the finance company or if the factory finances it they make a profit there.

Moving on in the HD experience.....
The new Milwaukee 8 makes 80 hp as delivered.
That will never do so you open up the screaming eagle catalog. https://www.harley-davidson.com/shop/screamin-eagle
Typically to get it over 100 you need heads, an air cleaner, gasket set, a cam, throttle body, an exhaust system and a new clutch, plus a tuning doo dah. That's $4200 - 5K plus or minus some change and tax. Another $3K or 30 hrs of labor to get it all in the motor and tuned properly. Your half way to $15K just getting it to go faster than the guys your ride with.

Throw in a dozen $35 tee shirts, a $450 jacket with a big HD on the back and one for mom. Couple of helmets, got to have gloves and chaps. Then the kids will be in to buy cups and tee shirts for Christmas. To keep that warranty intact with those hi-po parts you'll be getting the bike serviced where the parts were installed.
$15k might not be so far out of line if they are talking total profit derived from each motorcycle sale?
 

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Honda wrote a paper on this back in 2012 I believe. There are a lot of reasons for the decline and some good one expressed above. I will state a lot of younger folks are woosified and downright scared of motorcycles and a lot of things. Boys have been taught to be feminized by new social norms from radical leftist teachers. Most do not have the disposable income due to the our politicians buying into the CFR scam of free trade that has sent jobs out of this country by the millions, or that sucking sound Ross Perot talked of back in the early 90s. Those that go to college and take the safe spaces courses are unemployable and can not figure out what went wrong. Those that go into engineering or other employable degrees are straddled with huge debt ( up to 200k ) and have little extra money for some time. The younger generation is really into tech toys and do not want a motorcycle, an auto, or even a house, they are content to waste away in Moms basement. I really think this ongoing decline will continue. The motorcycle mfg. are well aware of it and soon you will see some leaving the market altogether, at least in the US.
100% agree!

Fort Worth, TX | 2010 Victory Cross Roads
 
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Discussion Starter #17
Is anyone else shocked to see that HD makes $15k on every bike they sell! Holy crap! The car manufacturers would love to get half that.
Because they didn't say "profit"; I took that to mean that's what HD gets to pay for everything (parts and labor) per bike. Whatever is left over after paying expenses is their profit. Bear in mind they have electricity, insurance, and building expenses too.

They probably make a few grand per bike. Pure speculation though.

The average person has no idea why a motorcycle can cost as much or more than a car. If all the parts under the hood and other non-exposed parts on a car had to look good; then cars would cost a heck of a lot more too.
 

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well i just got a mailer yesterday from Victory sayng becuase i am one of their most valued customers ( yea right) I have an opportunity to get some great deals on some remaining Victories. WTF do they think they are talking to? A Hilary Clinton supporter ?
 
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