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Discussion Starter #1
Well, I've been trying to get a dyno graph like this going for a while now. This graph shows all the common mods that are available for the XC to date (minus stock bore high-comp pistons which I believe is a waste of time/money).

Don't get wrapped up in the final numbers, look at the graphs and compare. After running a bunch of different XC's I believe these are very common numbers. Yes I know some of you out there may be making more, bla, bla, bla, but you are the minority in my experience. So pay attention to how the graphs compare and that is a good indication of how the bike will run as compared to other engine mods.

I have highlighted the STG1 graph for clarity, then you can see the "Just VM1 cams" followed by my 110" recipe, then the 116". All these are using Lloyds cams and pistons where indicated, and all were built by me and run on the same dyno.

Enjoy and start the bench racing!
 

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Discussion Starter #2
A couple of notes to get the juices flowing: Note the hit below 3000rpms that "just cams" makes as opposed to STG1.

Also note the Lloyds 6400 REV ECU on the 110" and 116". A PCV revving to 6000 would also work with all these combos.
 

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Well, I've been trying to get a dyno graph like this going for a while now. This graph shows all the common mods that are available for the XC to date (minus stock bore high-comp pistons which I believe is a waste of time/money).

Don't get wrapped up in the final numbers, look at the graphs and compare. After running a bunch of different XC's I believe these are very common numbers. Yes I know some of you out there may be making more, bla, bla, bla, but you are the minority in my experience. So pay attention to how the graphs compare and that is a good indication of how the bike will run as compared to other engine mods.

I have highlighted the STG1 graph for clarity, then you can see the "Just VM1 cams" followed by my 110" recipe, then the 116". All these are using Lloyds cams and pistons where indicated, and all were built by me and run on the same dyno.

Enjoy and start the bench racing!
Thanks for the info, but it may be easier to read if you break it out into separate data sheets.

It looks to me like the highlighted Stage 1 (orange) plot is of its HP and the highlighted 110 (red) plot is of its torque curve. Comparing the two don't mean much.

The other colors are too vague for me to figure out what goes with what. Sorry to be critical, but this is dandy information that I'd just love to digest.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Red and orange are tq and hp of a stg1 bike as stated. Graphs are overlaid for compartive purposes, i belive 4 different graphs makes it harder to compare because you have to jump from one graph to another to another, etc. This puts it in perspective. Sux that this site makes the pic so small though, even clicking it doesnt make it much bigger.
 

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Red and orange are tq and hp of a stg1 bike as stated.
I see. They just don't match the color code on the chart.

So looking at the Stage 1, below 3k rpms it is making more power than the next lowest torque curve, which would presumably be "Just Cams." This would seem to contradict your follow-up statement, hence my initial confusion.

They do give it a nice top end boost though.

1. So is the "Just Cams" using the stock exhaust baffles and airbox or Stage 1 versions?

2. Do you have to add a Power Commander or equivalent or is there a way to directly flash the bike's ECM or was this data taken with a stock or Stage 1 map?

3. How much do you charge for such a job? How long does it take?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I see. They just don't match the color code on the chart.

So looking at the Stage 1, below 3k rpms it is making more power than the next lowest torque curve, which would presumably be "Just Cams." This would seem to contradict your follow-up statement, hence my initial confusion.

They do give it a nice top end boost though.

1. So is the "Just Cams" using the stock exhaust baffles and airbox or Stage 1 versions?

2. Do you have to add a Power Commander or equivalent or is there a way to directly flash the bike's ECM or was this data taken with a stock or Stage 1 map?

3. How much do you charge for such a job? How long does it take?
When I said it took a hit, I mean the STG1 bike make more power and tq below 3K than the "just cammed" bike. So yes we are both saying the same thing.

All bikes are running slip-ons with unmodified head pipes and unmodified cats, and I believe that by some twist of fate they are all running the Honkers if I remember correctly (not necessarily on purpose). All bikes are running the Victory STG1 reusable air filter.

STG1 bike is just a reflash, cammed bike is a VFC, big-bore bikes are PCV.

Prices depend on what you have and what you want, but start about $1200 for just cams and up to $6000ish for a nice 116".


And yes Kevin you are correct, VM1 in the 110" and VM1HP in the 116".
 

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When I said it took a hit, I mean the STG1 bike make more power and tq below 3K than the "just cammed" bike. So yes we are both saying the same thing.

All bikes are running slip-ons with unmodified head pipes and unmodified cats, and I believe that by some twist of fate they are all running the Honkers if I remember correctly (not necessarily on purpose). All bikes are running the Victory STG1 reusable air filter.

STG1 bike is just a reflash, cammed bike is a VFC, big-bore bikes are PCV.

Prices depend on what you have and what you want, but start about $1200 for just cams and up to $6000ish for a nice 116".


And yes Kevin you are correct, VM1 in the 110" and VM1HP in the 116".
Thanks.

For the uninitiated, can you describe a VFC and a PCV. Speaking in acronyms is fine around the shop, but for the laymen out here, such jargon is of no value.

I have a feeling the PCV is not a positive crankcase ventilation, but a Power Commander V (PCV). A VFC sounds like an Asian knock off of a chicken joint to me. Anyway, is it safe to assume the cost of these are rolled up in the prices you listed?

I was still curious on a time frame for the work. Many people coming to see you will be traveling. Knowing how long they may have to wait there is an important consideration.

Finally, since the work would obviously void the mfg warranty, do you offer one of your own?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks.

For the uninitiated, can you describe a VFC and a PCV. Speaking in acronyms is fine around the shop, but for the laymen out here, such jargon is of no value.

I have a feeling the PCV is not a positive crankcase ventilation, but a Power Commander V (PCV). A VFC sounds like an Asian knock off of a chicken joint to me. Anyway, is it safe to assume the cost of these are rolled up in the prices you listed?

I was still curious on a time frame for the work. Many people coming to see you will be traveling. Knowing how long they may have to wait there is an important consideration.

Finally, since the work would obviously void the mfg warranty, do you offer one of your own?


Yes, PCV is a Power Commander 5, and a VFC is a Victory Fuel Controller, two of the most popular fuel controllers on the market and the subject of hundreds of posts/debates over the years.

Timeframe, again, depends on what you have and what you want. A set of cams can be done in an afternoon. A 116" could take 6-8 weeks if you didn't want to use my core cylinders. Typically though extensive engine work I like to slate 1-2 weeks to allow for enought time to not rush the job, and proper break-in (assuming we have all the parts collected in advance).

Lastly like any good mechanic, my work is warrantied. If I messed something up I will fix it. On the other hand if you sprayed the nitrous on a cold motor at 2000 rpms, that is on you (trust me, I'll be able to tell)!
 

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If you use the Firefox browser you can right click on the image and open it in a new tab. Click on it to make it bigger and press ctrl with one finger and the + key to zoom it. On my big screen tv; only the red and orange really came out well but maybe on a smaller computer monitor with more pixels it would be clearer.

The 110 sure is tempting...

Edit: Sent you a PM Rylan.
 

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If you use the Firefox browser you can right click on the image and open it in a new tab. Click on it to make it bigger and press ctrl with one finger and the + key to zoom it. On my big screen tv; only the red and orange really came out well but maybe on a smaller computer monitor with more pixels it would be clearer.

The 110 sure is tempting...

Edit: Sent you a PM Rylan.
What would be the benefit of the 110 over the 116? Seems like the same work/parts would need to be done, only the pistons and bores would be a little bigger. I can't understand why that would affect the price much. Are there reliability issues with the bigger pistons?
 

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Well, I've been trying to get a dyno graph like this going for a while now. This graph shows all the common mods that are available for the XC to date (minus stock bore high-comp pistons which I believe is a waste of time/money).

Don't get wrapped up in the final numbers, look at the graphs and compare. After running a bunch of different XC's I believe these are very common numbers. Yes I know some of you out there may be making more, bla, bla, bla, but you are the minority in my experience. So pay attention to how the graphs compare and that is a good indication of how the bike will run as compared to other engine mods.

I have highlighted the STG1 graph for clarity, then you can see the "Just VM1 cams" followed by my 110" recipe, then the 116". All these are using Lloyds cams and pistons where indicated, and all were built by me and run on the same dyno.

Enjoy and start the bench racing!
I have another question. How are you able to increase the redline using the bigger pistons? Why couldn't that have been done with the Stage 1 and Just Cams runs?
 

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Good info here! What concerns me is the dip in the torque curve below 3000 on the just cams motor compared to stage 1. For most of us just cruisin riders, that is where we spend 90% of our time even though the rush above 3000 would certainly be nice.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
The 110 uses less cam and clutch parts, is slightly simplier to build and test. All these engines and parts are super reliable if not abused (just like stock).
The higher redline is through the reprogrammed ECM, or by using a PCV and enabling the rev extend feature. The just cams bike just didnt have that on dyno day and would have ended up making more hp in that last bit of rpm range.
 

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Good info here! What concerns me is the dip in the torque curve below 3000 on the just cams motor compared to stage 1. For most of us just cruisin riders, that is where we spend 90% of our time even though the rush above 3000 would certainly be nice.
Never really notice the dip on the street
 

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I know that with the 116" the stock clutch needs replaced but you had mentioned that with the 110" it did not. At what point (HP&TQ) does the clutch need to be replaced. It seems like I remember reading that with one of your 110" builds that made 120 ft lbs really low you needed to replace the clutch. The big reason I ask is because your 110" is so close already to the 116" and if Lloyds new air filter and intake mod make a sizable difference then it might make about the same as the 116" with the stage 1 air filter.

With the iron sleeves in the 116" are there any special instructions for riding after break-in? The two metals expanding at different rates would the 116" need a warm up time before riding?

On another note is it possible to get a nikasel 116" instead of the iron sleeves? I figure if it were possible it wow cost a little bit more.
 
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