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Discussion Starter #1
I'm am far from a financial planning expert but would be foolish not to do the matching plan at work. Theirs is up to 4% of our salary and match dollar to dollar. I'm doing extra at 6% but it sucks regardless of how I've juggled it around over the years.


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I'm am far from a financial planning expert but would be foolish not to do the matching plan at work. Theirs is up to 4% of our salary and match dollar to dollar. I'm doing extra at 6% but it sucks regardless of how I've juggled it around over the years.


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Always take the free match but if your investment options are limited (e.g. annual return rate is under 6%) then you might want to reduce your contribution to that original 4% and take the other 6% and put it into something you can obtain a decent rate. You might consider a ROTH IRA which will give you the benefit of never having to pay taxes on ANYTHING your withdraw from it in your retirement...ever!
 

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Well by 401K, I daresay I'll be into my first or second big bore kit, she'll be out to 116 as at rebuild stage Id maybe swap out the 100 cube for a by then plentiful good used 106 bottom end with the longer stroke.
those extra six dont seem to give that much more Torque than my breathing 100, but they make for better HP.
Cams and a Supercharger could be on the menu too.
at my current rate 401k is about 8 years away so who knows...
mightve swung over to an XR chassis by then.
Good question though Dill.
 

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It's free money! Only reason I'm in...

Everything that I've read about 401k's suggested that it was not originally meant for a retirement plan. Duh!

The plans offered at work are junk mainly due to the money grubbing port folio managers kicking our tails with all of their fees.

I did an experiment over a year ago and split mine up into 11 different investments. No significant result.

I then went to a plan designed for my age and years left before retirement. Again, very poor results even though I stay well aware of market fluctuations.

I'll hang in there but have no great expectations and never will.
 

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It's free money! Only reason I'm in...

Everything that I've read about 401k's suggested that it was not originally meant for a retirement plan. Duh!

The plans offered at work are junk mainly due to the money grubbing port folio managers kicking our tails with all of their fees.

I did an experiment over a year ago and split mine up into 11 different investments. No significant result.

I then went to a plan designed for my age and years left before retirement. Again, very poor results even though I stay well aware of market fluctuations.

I'll hang in there but have no great expectations and never will.
Yep, most have VERY poor choices. That's why I say limit those $'s and put them into something you have more control over. I made 35% in my ROTH IRA in 2013 and that's :crzy: but it was only possible because I can invest in ANYTHING I want as it is not in a 401K. Then again, I also have Real Estate IRAs, Alternative Annuities and other non-traditional investments as well.
 

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Some peeps are inclined to guide their investments and to them a tip of the hat.

To the huge majority that are not so inclined for whatever reason, 401k's may be the difference between eating burger or Alpo at the end of life.

Whether they were originally intended as a retirement vehicle or a tax shelter doesn't really matter. They are both. For literally millions of people who otherwise would have zip in the bank they are the buffer. They are "safer" investment choices than many others and safer almost always means less ROI. Thing is, when you view a 401k from the prism of your investment folio you ignore a laundry list of benefits. Some of them come not from your 401k but from the other guys 401k.

That guy is not going to be as reliant on you for his needs as he declines as the guy without. That guy may very well have financed houses and college educations with loans he took from himself during his productive years insuring some solvency for his dependants when he passes, he may have made Daytona or Sturgis every year due to the tax savings he realized during years of contribution. Those trips make him a happy boy and less likely to riot in the street.

Young guys, read that most riders, are invincible and don't see the margin in squirreling away beer money for the rocking chair. A 401k does away with the mechanics. Cash gone before you see it is easier to stomach than cash you have to push into the corner.

401k's are societal game changers and from where I sit since monkeys have opposable thumbs and attitude, the only real dif between us and them is 401k's.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Some peeps are inclined to guide their investments and to them a tip of the hat.

To the huge majority that are not so inclined for whatever reason, 401k's may be the difference between eating burger or Alpo at the end of life.

Whether they were originally intended as a retirement vehicle or a tax shelter doesn't really matter. They are both. For literally millions of people who otherwise would have zip in the bank they are the buffer. They are "safer" investment choices than many others and safer almost always means less ROI. Thing is, when you view a 401k from the prism of your investment folio you ignore a laundry list of benefits. Some of them come not from your 401k but from the other guys 401k.

That guy is not going to be as reliant on you for his needs as he declines as the guy without. That guy may very well have financed houses and college educations with loans he took from himself during his productive years insuring some solvency for his dependants when he passes, he may have made Daytona or Sturgis every year due to the tax savings he realized during years of contribution. Those trips make him a happy boy and less likely to riot in the street.

Young guys, read that most riders, are invincible and don't see the margin in squirreling away beer money for the rocking chair. A 401k does away with the mechanics. Cash gone before you see it is easier to stomach than cash you have to push into the corner.

401k's are societal game changers and from where I sit since monkeys have opposable thumbs and attitude, the only real dif between us and them is 401k's.
Pop! I agree with most of what you say and while it is good that 401's exist, they are not a pie in the sky that's for sure!

I remember mom and dad paid $12,000 for their house back in early 60's. Dad had a decent pension from fire dept but they still stashed dough in and around the house. Thousands!!!

Mom passed away, dad lives with my brother. Brother pays himself for caring for him while his wife's kid from a different marriage lives in dad's old house we were supposed be selling. Whoa!

I digress! I recognize the importance of preparation for mine my wife's retirement years...

The living years trump them future years in my book. The quality of our lives now is something that we hope to carry on as we age but seeing how savings earnings depends on all the crap happening in the world, driving the markets, does not make me feel secure about whats to come for a average Joe that likes to ride and enjoys all the simple things in life.
 

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This is exactly why it is Important

To teach your dogs and cats to share!!


Some peeps are inclined to guide their investments and to them a tip of the hat.

To the huge majority that are not so inclined for whatever reason, 401k's may be the difference between eating burger or Alpo at the end of life.

Whether they were originally intended as a retirement vehicle or a tax shelter doesn't really matter. They are both. For literally millions of people who otherwise would have zip in the bank they are the buffer. They are "safer" investment choices than many others and safer almost always means less ROI. Thing is, when you view a 401k from the prism of your investment folio you ignore a laundry list of benefits. Some of them come not from your 401k but from the other guys 401k.

That guy is not going to be as reliant on you for his needs as he declines as the guy without. That guy may very well have financed houses and college educations with loans he took from himself during his productive years insuring some solvency for his dependants when he passes, he may have made Daytona or Sturgis every year due to the tax savings he realized during years of contribution. Those trips make him a happy boy and less likely to riot in the street.

Young guys, read that most riders, are invincible and don't see the margin in squirreling away beer money for the rocking chair. A 401k does away with the mechanics. Cash gone before you see it is easier to stomach than cash you have to push into the corner.

401k's are societal game changers and from where I sit since monkeys have opposable thumbs and attitude, the only real dif between us and them is 401k's.
 

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Some peeps are inclined to guide their investments and to (sic move them at) a tip of the hat.

To the huge majority that are not so inclined for whatever reason, 401k's may be the difference between eating burger or Alpo at the end of life.

Whether they were originally intended as a retirement vehicle or a tax shelter doesn't really matter. They are both. For literally millions of people who otherwise would have zip in the bank they are the buffer. They are "safer" investment choices than many others and safer almost always means less ROI. Thing is, when you view a 401k from the prism of your investment folio you ignore a laundry list of benefits. Some of them come not from your 401k but from the other guys 401k.

That guy is not going to be as reliant on you for his needs as he declines as the guy without. That guy may very well have financed houses and college educations with loans he took from himself during his productive years insuring some solvency for his dependants when he passes, he may have made Daytona or Sturgis every year due to the tax savings he realized during years of contribution. Those trips make him a happy boy and less likely to riot in the street.

Young guys, read that most riders, are invincible and don't see the margin in squirreling away beer money for the rocking chair. A 401k does away with the mechanics. Cash gone before you see it is easier to stomach than cash you have to push into the corner.

401k's are societal game changers and from where I sit since monkeys have opposable thumbs and attitude, the only real dif between us and them is 401k's.
I don't think this is as simple as "401K or not". The OP expressed concern that his 401K is performing SO VERY POORLY as compared to other investments. He speculates (accurately) that the investment houses are making the profits on his 401K dollars (and he is likely VERY correct there as well). So the point is really... how do I make what I make "more effective". The bottom line is that you TAKE CONTROL of those $'s rather than leaving them to languish in a 401K that is being essentially "sucked dry" from excessive fees.

The government is now recognizing that these investment firms are performing "predatory" practices on many 401K and other "forced" investment models and are (very slowly) trying to take steps to ensure that the individual investors have a fair number of low-expense options available to them in their 401Ks but many still don't.

It's sad for an astute investor like myself to see a 401K with around a 3 or 4% ROI when all my other investments are able to make WAY more in the market during the EXACT SAME period. Unfortunately for the OP as well as myself, moving the investment around to different categories available continues to yield... essentially nothing simply due to the portfolio managers taking huge "management" FEES (some as much as 6%!!!).

I use to run the calcs once a year Pensions, 401Ks, IRA, Annuities, Real Estate, Options, Commodities, etc. EVERY year the 401Ks basically performed at or close to the bottom which is really sad when you realize that many annuities only generate around a 4% return and some 401K positions can't even achieve that! Truth is that they may have made 8% but the admin "fees" sucked the other 4% out before you even see the wet ink on the page.
 

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Well by 401K, I daresay I'll be into my first or second big bore kit, she'll be out to 116 as at rebuild stage Id maybe swap out the 100 cube for a by then plentiful good used 106 bottom end with the longer stroke.
those extra six dont seem to give that much more Torque than my breathing 100, but they make for better HP.
Cams and a Supercharger could be on the menu too.
at my current rate 401k is about 8 years away so who knows...
mightve swung over to an XR chassis by then.
Good question though Dill.
ok enough talk about money lets get this thread back on track...
 

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Like it's been said, it is just like giving yourself a raise. At minimum, put in what the company matches.
For me the tax benefits and the fairly low maintenance costs justifies me putting in a bit more than the match. Add to that the excessive stresses of becoming or hiring a CFP and the time that it takes to learn the "smart" ways to invest. I have a basic understanding of many types of investments, but being able to manage them on my own, honestly, I don't have time for it. If I enjoyed it and didn't see it as a chore, that would be a different story. So for me, I'll keep socking away my 10% and hope to be able to survive when retirement comes around.
None of us know what the future holds, so all that you can do is try to hope for the best and expect the worse. All the planning in the world doesn't negate that semi hitting you at 70 on the interstate (God forbid). You plan and plan, have it all worked out, but there's always the possibility that something tragic happens that ends up costing you 3 times what you ever anticipated.

"The best made plans of mice and men oft go astray".

Cherish yesterday, dream tomorrow, live today
 

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